2019 and Beyond Speculation at SFGA

[dougdrummer]

On 9/6/2017 at 9:29 PM, Nitro1118 said:

If I remember reading correctly, CF has seen a down year so far as well. I think the weather has really hurt all regional theme parks this season.

 

As far as how it will effect GAdv's next addition...I am going to assume not too much. Even with attendance down a bit, I believe SF reported a small increase in revenue. SF's capital expenditure, for now, is a fixed number based on their income. GAdv is the chain's biggest money-maker, so we will always be one of the top priorities. That may not necessarily result in a RMC, but it also won't result in just an updated lazy river, either. 

 

Lastly, we have had plenty of family/mid-level additions the last 5 years. Adventure Alley, SORA and Justice League were all amazing additions for people of all age groups. Joker, El Diablo and Zumanjaro, while thrill rides, all have only 48 inch requirements. That was a height range that the park had very little to offer. Cyborg will provide a new, eye-catching flat ride as well.

 

While the overall landscape may dictate that more family rides may still be the best option, you have to consider context. In 12 years we have received 3 coasters; the first was a cloned Wild Mouse, another was a relocated 20 year old standup that is universally hated, and a cloned freespin that is gimmicky to the point it alienates a large sector of riders. In those 12 years, we lost both tracks of a beloved coaster in Chiller, lost GASM, and lost both sides of RT. That means we have less coasters in 2018 than we did in 2006 (or exactly the same if you consider Chiller and RT as one ride).

 

I do think a relatively large scale coaster would make the most sense for the park for the reasons above. Especially if it is placed in Old Country to completely re-integrate that last "dead area" back to life.

But height requirement is not the sole determination of whether a person will ride it or not.  You mentioned that Joker, El Diablo and Zum have only 48" requirement, but neither my wife or I have ridden those three, nor will we ever.  We also won't ride this new Cyborg next year.  My wife used to ride Rolling Thunder but will never ride El Toro.  I rode El Toro once and that was enough for me.  Same with Green Lantern.  The only coasters my wife will ride is Skull, Dark Knight and Harley Quinn.  She won't even ride Runaway Train because it is so rough now.

[Nitro1118]

1 hour ago, dougdrummer said:

But height requirement is not the sole determination of whether a person will ride it or not.  You mentioned that Joker, El Diablo and Zum have only 48" requirement, but neither my wife or I have ridden those three, nor will we ever.  We also won't ride this new Cyborg next year.  My wife used to ride Rolling Thunder but will never ride El Toro.  I rode El Toro once and that was enough for me.  Same with Green Lantern.  The only coasters my wife will ride is Skull, Dark Knight and Harley Quinn.  She won't even ride Runaway Train because it is so rough now.

As I said, those three are thrill rides. They did fill a need for those kids who are too old for RMT/Skull Mountain but not tall enough for KK or the B&M's.

[Mrpq]

I hate to say it but unless a new coaster comes to the park I do not see my self going out of my way to get back to the park and I am saying this as a current season pass holder.  I used my 2017 in the later half of 2016 more time that I used in in 2017.

[29yrswithaGApass]

On 9/7/2017 at 11:51 AM, Matt Kaiser said:

I think the heat was actually worse. I felt like most of the summer was either very hot or thunderstorms, and very little in between.
The heat specifically was a contributing factor for me not going for over a month straight, which I think is my longest "drought" in probably 4 or 5 years, ignoring the off-season.

I totally agree, this was the same for me.  I couldn't visit for weeks on end because I was moving but when a few opportunities popped up it was just too hot to visit.  In all seriousness, this wouldn't have been the case it they had an air conditioned show that we could have escaped into but without being able to get out of the heat for a break it was a no go.  

Not to beat a dead horse but GA needs shows including one at the Showcase Theatre during the summer months.

[Lemur]

20 hours ago, rj1972 said:

That's too bad about the land. It's tough to install a mega-coaster when all you have to work with is the existing footprint. I'm guessing that state regulators would would put Six Flags through the ringer if they attempted to use forest land. 

Maybe, maybe not.  There was a good bit kicking and screaming a while back about deforesting a tract of land to install a solar farm, which the locals changed their land use ordnance to allow.  The bigger issue would be GA spurring growth on Route 537, which considering they signed on to pay for municipal waterlines along there, I think the locals at least are more amenable.   

[dougdrummer]

2 hours ago, 29yrswithaGApass said:

I totally agree, this was the same for me.  I couldn't visit for weeks on end because I was moving but when a few opportunities popped up it was just too hot to visit.  In all seriousness, this wouldn't have been the case it they had an air conditioned show that we could have escaped into but without being able to get out of the heat for a break it was a no go.  

Not to beat a dead horse but GA needs shows including one at the Showcase Theatre during the summer months.

agree wholeheartedly

[robertleax]

I have not even been to the park this year.  Not just we have been busy... (My wife had a stroke in April and my son passed away suddenly later that month and then my daughter went back to college in August) but even when we decided to go, we ended up going to the beach another park.  I do want to try Justice League but with everything else the same and with no shows we just decided not to.

I have a membership for the family and I have gotten a good rate for the past few years, so I don't want to cancel them (since we do make a trip to SFNE or SFA from time to time), but now it just seem feasible now.

I would love a new coaster for 2019, but I prefer more shows and a sit down sports bar restaurant.

[scott]

I'm so sorry. 

[dougdrummer]

28 minutes ago, robertleax said:

I have not even been to the park this year.  Not just we have been busy... (My wife had a stroke in April and my son passed away suddenly later that month and then my daughter went back to college in August) but even when we decided to go, we ended up going to the beach another park.  I do want to try Justice League but with everything else the same and with no shows we just decided not to.

I have a membership for the family and I have gotten a good rate for the past few years, so I don't want to cancel them (since we do make a trip to SFNE or SFA from time to time), but now it just seem feasible now.

I would love a new coaster for 2019, but I prefer more shows and a sit down sports bar restaurant.

Wow - it's been a real rough year for you - prayers for your family.

[Mrpq]

dang dude,  sorry to hear all that.  Family takes first spot for sure.  Thoughts and prayers to ever one

[harry2004]

ok this is my idea what the park can get in 2019

new rides in both metropolis and movietown

starting with metropolis

a zamperla endeavour themed to wonder woman

a chance freestyle themed to kryptonite,

the picnic area will be renamed to metro park

the old enterprise waffle clone be rethemed to ace o clubs something like six flags magic mountain restaurant.

and here my ideas for movietown

a retheme to gotham city

the stunt arena is demolished for a mack rides power splash called the penguins blizzard splash

and the part of the stunt arena is used for a huss troika called nightwing

the freefall spot is used for a zamperla disko called two face

studio 28 arcade and studio restrooms can be demolished for a zamperla hawk called the riddler revenge and the gotham city store is renamed to gotham gear

in front of the old chiller building is a wave swinger called gotham city crime wave

and for the studio commissary the facades will be replaced by the facades from the batman films and snowys ice cream is added behind mamma floras grill with new restrooms added next to snowys ice cream

and this area haves 3 enterances one at the current movietown sign, two at adventure seaport between coldstone and johnny rockets, and three at metropolis so you can get from metropolis to gotham city

Edited September 18, 2017 by harry2004

[rceracreations]

On September 3, 2017 at 10:40 AM, rj1972 said:

I would love to see some shows added to the mix of rides and attractions. I go to WDW twice a year or so with friends or family, but have yet to convince any of them to visit Six Flags for a multitude of reasons, including a lack of shows. Not everyone is a high speed thrill ride fan. I feel that Six Flags is completely overlooking that market segment.

Bravo. What happened over these last ten years? Absolutely no shows at all to speak of short of one small animal show. i get it, budget budget budget. These things do not attract visitors etc etc. however GADV is merely a shell of its former self and seems terribly hollow and one dimensional.

[Lemur]

On 9/17/2017 at 9:08 PM, rceracreations said:

Bravo. What happened over these last ten years? Absolutely no shows at all to speak of short of one small animal show. i get it, budget budget budget. These things do not attract visitors etc etc. however GADV is merely a shell of its former self and seems terribly hollow and one dimensional.

 

I think it's a Return on Investment situation. SF has to make the decision based on where their revenue stream is coming from.  Is it coming from passholders who will come to the park on crowded days to go to the shows?  Or is it coming from the day-trippers who are coming to spend the money single day admission and a Flash pass to go to the front of the line on the coasters?  From that perspective, the emphasis on bigger and faster rides provides a better ROI.  They're better off investing their show budget into things like Dead Man's Party and other special event shows.  

[Pineracer]

2 hours ago, Lemur said:

 

I think it's a Return on Investment situation. SF has to make the decision based on where their revenue stream is coming from.  Is it coming from passholders who will come to the park on crowded days to go to the shows?  Or is it coming from the day-trippers who are coming to spend the money single day admission and a Flash pass to go to the front of the line on the coasters?  From that perspective, the emphasis on bigger and faster rides provides a better ROI.  They're better off investing their show budget into things like Dead Man's Party and other special event shows.  

So true, but they just renovated the Showcase theater. That could be a hint at something going on there more often.

[Lemur]

15 minutes ago, Pineracer said:

So true, but they just renovated the Showcase theater. That could be a hint at something going on there more often.

 

Which inherently isn't a bad thing, as it keeps people in the park longer spending more money.  

 

Personally, I think they'd do well with a dinner theater set up, either an Americana review or a DC super hero show.  They don't have to offer anything more than what's offered at the three big seated dining venues and they already have a license to serve beer and wine.  Can't be any worse than the Pirates Dinner Adventure I went to in Orlando. 

[Tower]

Here's the thing that makes me worried about the possibility of a new coaster in the future. Six Flags is trying to get RMC Hybrids in every park, but we already have El Toro, so the best we'd get if anything would be a watered down version of Twisted Cyclone (which is the worst RMC). A T-Rex would be perfect as the park gets a lot of attendance already, however, knowing Six Flags, they won't do it. That leaves us with a Raptor, which would create capacity nightmares as our park is sandwich'd in between NYC and Philly, but I'd be able to forgive that if Six Flags didn't give us a clone, because knowing them they absolutely will. (probably themed to wonder woman as well, killing two birds with one stone)

 

RMC seems to be the only source of Six Flags coasters at this point, not that it's a bad thing (Iron Rattler and Wicked Cyclone are amazing examples of good RMCs) but every year the RMCs get worse. The last two RMC Hybrids Six Flags put in are currently ranked the two worst the company has ever produced (Joker, Twisted Cyclone).

 

Besides that, and this has probably been said many times, but the park doesn't get as much love. It isn't as clean, some parts of the park look like they're falling apart, it kind of just needs work with appearance. 

Edited September 21, 2017 by Tower

[joeyc98]

Its funny how we say Joker and Twisted Cyclone are the latest and worst RMC's, yet they look like they will still give/do give amazing rides. Yes, Twisted Cyclone looks very short. However, if we were to get a rollercoaster like that, I wouldn't complain because that short ride time would still be enjoyable.

[dougdrummer]

The Showcase could get innovative and hold talent-type contests, if they don't want to pay for professional entertainers.  We were there one day this summer and we heard music coming from the theater.  It was hot outside, so I convinced my wife to go inside and see what was going on.  They were having some type of cheer-type dance contest, and there were teams from all over the tri-state region.  Although cheerleading is not really my thing, it was still mildly entertaining to watch the kids for about 45 minutes.  I never saw the contest advertised, even in the park.  There were a few hundred spectators in the theater - mostly relatives of the participants.  I'm sure these people spent money while there.  All it cost SF was air conditioning, electric and a few staff to run the lights and sound.

 

Imagine if they did some variant of America's Got Talent or the X Factor?  They could advertise the heck out of it, and attract people from all over.  Especially if they were to use some local celebrities as judges.  I think the return on investment would be significant.

 

The types of events they could hold at Showcase are pretty vast.  I'm not sure why they don't hold concerts in there for local bands or bands that are up and coming, and can't fill a larger or outdoor theater yet.

Edited September 28, 2017 by dougdrummer

[Squidy2201]

While I do see Six Flags cloning raptor models, there has been a history of them not doing anything big for mile stones.

[Tower]

At this point, I'm hoping a new coaster won't happen for awhile and here's why. Six Flags does seem to be cheaping out, but this is mainly because of the focus being on the parks opening overseas. If we were to get a coaster next year or the year after, chances are it would either end up being a raptor clone (capacity nightmare and lacks originality, as does the rest of our parks coasters almost) or something along the lines of Twisted Cyclone (too short of a ride to even enjoy, the elements themselves are too common on other RMCs). Having something like Medusa Steel Coaster on the other side of the park by Nitro and Batman would be insane and would make our lineup amazing, and I think there still is space for an addition of that caliber in that area. Correct me if I'm wrong obviously, I'm not even sure how big the area is to be honest.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Tower

[Medusa42]

7 hours ago, Tower said:

At this point, I'm hoping a new coaster won't happen for awhile and here's why. Six Flags does seem to be cheaping out, but this is mainly because of the focus being on the parks opening overseas.

Six Flags only spent money on the water park in Oaxtepec,  they aren't spending any money on any of the other international deals.  The only reason Six Flags is spending less on rides is that they are giving most of the money to stockholders with dividends and stock buybacks.  The money is there, they just don't want to spend as much on rides.

[Lemur]

3 hours ago, Medusa42 said:

Six Flags only spent money on the water park in Oaxtepec,  they aren't spending any money on any of the other international deals.  The only reason Six Flags is spending less on rides is that they are giving most of the money to stockholders with dividends and stock buybacks.  The money is there, they just don't want to spend as much on rides.

 

Which could mean they may be raising their NAV for a new capital campaign and buying spree in the future.  (Crosses fingers.)

Edited October 2, 2017 by Lemur

[rceracreations]

On September 19, 2017 at 10:24 AM, Lemur said:

 

I think it's a Return on Investment situation. SF has to make the decision based on where their revenue stream is coming from.  Is it coming from passholders who will come to the park on crowded days to go to the shows?  Or is it coming from the day-trippers who are coming to spend the money single day admission and a Flash pass to go to the front of the line on the coasters?  From that perspective, the emphasis on bigger and faster rides provides a better ROI.  They're better off investing their show budget into things like Dead Man's Party and other special event shows.  

 

Yes great points Lemur. Understood.  No doubt the investments are spread out and I have absolutely NOOO issue with that being dedicated to major thrill attractions. I personally pine for the coaster war days but as well all know those days are beyond us. What I suppose I'd like to see is less turnover. I know that is vague and I guess that comes with constant changing of SF ownership.  I understand things change and some attractions come and go but hearing things like Medusa/Bizzaro is on the speculative chopping block due to it's location and lower attendance has got me really freaked. If anything I would say Green Lantern should take the hike as it may be the only B&M I've ridden that has the potential to be painful especially to the knees and lower legs if not affixed properly.  I must say though, that I was previously rather harsh on the matter of the park and, upon returning to the park several times over the course of the last month, I've really noted so much of it's appeal and several unique attractions.  While I can't stand the uncharges especially for haunted mazes I have to say I was completely BLOWN AWAY by UNLEASHED in the Showcase Theater.  I might just pay admission just to see that show! Post a little all over and not to the point I do apologize.

[ericthewanderer]

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 3:28 PM, dougdrummer said:

The Showcase could get innovative and hold talent-type contests, if they don't want to pay for professional entertainers.  We were there one day this summer and we heard music coming from the theater.  It was hot outside, so I convinced my wife to go inside and see what was going on.  They were having some type of cheer-type dance contest, and there were teams from all over the tri-state region.  Although cheerleading is not really my thing, it was still mildly entertaining to watch the kids for about 45 minutes.  I never saw the contest advertised, even in the park.  There were a few hundred spectators in the theater - mostly relatives of the participants.  I'm sure these people spent money while there.  All it cost SF was air conditioning, electric and a few staff to run the lights and sound.

 

Imagine if they did some variant of America's Got Talent or the X Factor?  They could advertise the heck out of it, and attract people from all over.  Especially if they were to use some local celebrities as judges.  I think the return on investment would be significant.

 

The types of events they could hold at Showcase are pretty vast.  I'm not sure why they don't hold concerts in there for local bands or bands that are up and coming, and can't fill a larger or outdoor theater yet.

I think doing something along these lines can give Great Adv. and SF in general  a "shot in the arm".

The cheerleading event I think would be a no-brainer:the park has a "special event" that weekend at a bare minimum of expense.I mean-who doesn't like cheerleaders?

Maybe for Holiday In The Park Great Adv.  could have some sort of "gospel sing-off" where local choirs compete for either donations to their charity or free season passes.

Also I think it was Disney/MGM that had an American Idol LIVE! show for a few years-basically ANY local person or tourist who had the nerve to get onstage could perform,and supposedly a few were actually good or at least interesting to watch.

I think that these "thinking outside the box" events might be good for Great Adv./SF -especially in "off seasons" like late spring or September before Fright Fest.

[Lemur]

On 10/29/2017 at 1:13 AM, ericthewanderer said:

I think doing something along these lines can give Great Adv. and SF in general  a "shot in the arm".

The cheerleading event I think would be a no-brainer:the park has a "special event" that weekend at a bare minimum of expense.I mean-who doesn't like cheerleaders?

Maybe for Holiday In The Park Great Adv.  could have some sort of "gospel sing-off" where local choirs compete for either donations to their charity or free season passes.

Also I think it was Disney/MGM that had an American Idol LIVE! show for a few years-basically ANY local person or tourist who had the nerve to get onstage could perform,and supposedly a few were actually good or at least interesting to watch.

I think that these "thinking outside the box" events might be good for Great Adv./SF -especially in "off seasons" like late spring or September before Fright Fest.

 

They already do those thing - https://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/special-events?qt-events=1#qt-events 

Click on the "Special Group and Education Events" tab.