Daved Thomson

4 hours ago, 29yrswithaGApass said:

I don’t really mind the bridge. I mean it’s not like they have to take it out because they’re putting new stuff in.

I guess the question is whether the bridge serves the purpose of a bridge, or is it just there because they don't want to remove it because of the cost of doing so?

On 12/8/2022 at 12:51 PM, GAcoaster said:

I'd be OK with replacing it, but there's really no reason they can't just maintain it properly. 

 

If they do replace it I'd want to see something similar to replace it and not a "thrill" ride. The park has lost too many family flat rides. 

Spot on with everything you say.  Either bring it up to as close to nearly new as possible or replace it with a new Big Wheel of at least the same height, keeping in mind that the replacement of the Flying Wave with Sky Screamer was really the replacement of a family ride with a thrill ride.  Again, you can't sell a park to a broad demographic like families when 90% of your attractions are thrill rides/rollercoasters.  Your advertising may bring them in once, but when they see the reality of the experience at that premium price, you're not likely to see them again.

Good question.  Hopefully, the correct answer is the third picture.

5 hours ago, 29yrswithaGApass said:

I think the majority of the incidences involved boats bumping together and getting hooked on each other which they resolved by spacing them further apart.  
 

The boats were also getting caught on the rocks which they fixed by putting in the wooden walls to keep them in the river trough.  
 

If anything, the rougher waters and waterfall caused people to undo their seatbelts and move about the boat to avoid the water.   

Nothing that putting back the "You Ride Hard and Come Out Wet!" sign couldn't fix!

Is this a picture of the current Yum Yum Cafe interior?  Wow!  Anyone who had seen the original interior of the Yum Yum Palace would be sorely disappointed walking into this, which itself is even quite a step down from the interior of the Great Character Cafe.  Things like this should never remain unfinished.

I think preventive maintenance at GA has always been lacking.  Then when it comes to fixing something that has broken, it seems as if they put just the minimal amount of maintenance into it to get it operating again.  The old band aid where, perhaps, stitches were actually needed.

On 11/30/2022 at 7:21 PM, 29yrswithaGApass said:

If it would fit, this looks like an interesting option.

 

 

This definitely looks like a reasonable attempt to make the building into a viable attraction once again.

Totally agree.  His presence was something else.  Until you saw him in person for the first time, I don't think you'd expect what you found.  His height, like everything else in Texas, was big!  I don't know if anyone makes it today to the top of a major company without a college degree.  I think he truly had a love for Six Flags.  I idolized the man in my youth, along the same lines of how I idolized Warner LeRoy and Walt Disney.  Rest in Peace, Larry B.

I think this is a mild improvement over Chapek, but I'm really not of the opinion that Iger was ever any type of godsend for the company either.  In fact, I think he is the brainchild behind the exploitation of the company's newer intellectual property and cloning of attractions at the expense of new attractions for the domestic parks that are truly innovative and unique.  Notice Tokyo Disneyland, which generally does not purchase attractions that are simply clones of attractions from other Disney parks.  Disney has no financial interest in this property and it routinely gets ratings stronger than the other Disney properties everywhere.

Interesting...  If the beatification Capex has changed to attractions and rides, you'd think the target market would also change from those willing to pay a premium price for a premium experience to those simply wanting new rides, regardless of who those new rides attract.  For me, it merely confirms the guy at the top has no idea what he's doing, other than throwing a lot of "hall Mary's" in the final quarter.

2 hours ago, GAcoaster said:

Having worked for one of those contractors, I found it interesting the way the park structures their agreements.

 

The contractor pays whatever the park decides the cost of the stand is, then pays a percentage of the sales as well. It was very hard to make money as a contractor with all the charges from the park. Several of the contractors have locations at theme parks all over the place, so I guess there's money to be made... 

So the original firm selling out of the location pays the original construction costs for the location as well as costs to lease the location for some period of time (anywhere from 1 season to "n" seasons), and a percentage of their sales at the location?  Those are pretty hefty upfront costs for the first firm doing business out of the location.  Subsequent firms selling out of the property probably had it a little better.  That is, of course, unless the location required substantial modifications to sell the new tenants merchandise, which I'm assuming the park would charge them to complete.  I wonder if the park offered some minimum attendance level for the season before taking a percentage of the locations sales. 

17 hours ago, GAcoaster said:

The days of transportation rides being added to parks are gone unfortunately. They cost too much to build and maintain, and are not a draw to a park for most guests. 

I fully agree that transportation rides in parks (like the sky ride) or getting a ride from the car to the park (parking lot trams) or a ride around the park (trains) are expensive to operate, acquire, and maintain.  But, eliminating them does impact the type of guest willing to go to a park, just as the elimination of shows and attractions does.  I'm specifically referring to the older crowd.  If these companies claim to want to draw customers willing to pay a premium price, they must provide a premium experience.  Even Disney is beginning to feel the effect of ever increasing prices while cutting back on the basics.  As you mentioned in another comment, Sea World operated parks continue to operate Sky Rides and Disney installed the Sky Liner.  Both companies seem to have a better grasp on preventive maintenance throughout their parks.  Six Flags doesn't seem to believe in preventive maintenance, preferring, instead to wait until something is truly broken before fully fixing it or, more often than not, throwing a band aid on it or simply eliminating it.

Great spotlight and easily my favorite of the roadway signs for the park.  Interesting little tidbit about the Lightnin' Loops version of the rainbow sign.  Just speculating here, but I'm thinking the two signs were not produced by the same sign company.  The Lightnin' Loops version of the rainbow does not use the correct font for Six Flags. It also incorrectly utilizes four stars before and after Six Flags, rather than 4 stars before and 4 1/2 stars after.  Six Flags proudly began adding versions of the new logo to many of the park's ride vehicles and merchandise/souvenirs.  They had to work pretty hard to fit Six Flags above Great Adventure on the log flume boats, but they somehow succeeded and managed to use the correct Six Flags font.

On 11/7/2022 at 1:49 AM, GAcoaster said:

Maybe it was the additional wear and tear on the pavement? 

Could very well be a factor in a park largely paved in concrete, especially if someone is using some sort of salt mixture to make the route safe for vehicles to drive-on.  Somehow, though, I'm not willing to give that much credit to the man at the helm's thought processes or his willingness to listen to someone at the park level that may have advised him of such an issue.  I just don't see a lot of logic in his decisions or his willingness to listen to the rational of far more tenured theme park professionals.

Loving these picts from the parks earliest days.  They really reinforce the park being an escape from the outside world.  Interesting that, at least in this picture, there are very few buses in the lost.  The only buses I see, and I assume they are not parked because of their tandem order, are about midway vertically, on the left.  I'm thinking they're in line to either exit the park or heading toward the return road.

It doesn't promote a premium experience in the slightest.  In fact, it further detracts from whatever experience you, personally, feel you're getting.

Do you happen to know if this was the first season or first concert that guests were required to pay an upcharge fee to attend the show?

Just some thoughts on the Arrow-Huss car included in the Lightning' Loops file.  The chassis on that car is a much newer design than that of Lightnin' Loops cars. At some point, perhaps, the park may have been looking to replace the two Lightnin' Loops trains.  The seating position on that car seems to be higher than that for the LL cars.  You really stepped down into the cars on Arrow's looping coasters.  And, as we know, Lightnin' Loops was designed and built when Arrow was still in Mountain View, California.  I know it was called a merger when Arrow-Huss was formed, but in reality, Huss purchased Arrow from Rio Grande Industries.  As we all know, Arrow-Huss went bankrupt only about 5 years after the "merger."  When Arrow emerged as Arrow Dynamics and moved to Utah, I have to believe the sale of their Northern California properties did some serious replenishing of their bank accounts.  The cars on all of three of their Six Flags megaloopers and other loopers produced by Arrow Dynamics reverted to the same design utilized on their original loop coasters.

I'm sure the actual sign posted on GA's Roaring Rapids with the phrase "You Ride Hard and Come Out Wet" on it was freshly painted for our park and our rapids ride. That being said, I was surprised to learn today while reading an East Texas Historical Association journal article covering the complete history of AstroWorld, that the phrase was widely known and appeared in the queue house of that park's Thunder River.

Another interesting tidbit I took away from the article, if it is correct, is that it appears that Great Adventure may have been the first Six Flags acquisition of a park that they purchased outright.  The article claims that Six Flags had leased AstroWorld from interests of the Hofheinz family beginning in 1975, but did not actually purchase the park until 1978.

Some good stuff (much of it surprising to me) about AstroWorld's history can be found in this journal article.  https://scholarworks.sfasu.edu/ethj/vol36/iss2/12

I certainly remember those days and, if you think about it, the incredible value that was built into your ticket (especially the combination ticket).  More than 100 rides, shows, and attractions.  And, something for everyone in the family, from toddlers to teenagers, dating couples, and parents to grandparents.  "Where you're part of the fun...  There's something for everyone."

What an incredibly thorough spotlight and update.  I never rode Shockwave at Great Adventure, but did get to ride it at Magic Mountain.  The novelty of standup coasters, for me, is probably their strongest asset.  Personally, I find standups to be uncomfortable and noticeably slower than their counterparts with seats.  Still a great ride, especially as a part of the ride rotation program.  

Interesting note regarding Ray Williams, who appears in a number of the photos.  After leaving Great Adventure, he briefly went to Six Flags' corporate office in Piscataway, directly under Larry Cochran.  After leaving Six Flags, he briefly went to work for Arrow Dynamics.  He was among the earliest of the Six Flags park Vice Presidents/General Managers, going all the way back to the company's ownership under the Great Southwest Corporation.

I agree that they may have considered the winding walkways and, in all honesty, I think they looked great on the model.  But in the end, there was little to no landscaping or planting of grass beyond the queue.  I think it's very likely that Six Flags had a strong multi-year plan for the park, given their intent to make it the nation's largest seasonal theme park.  For their first season, though, I think they probably inherited alot of prior management's plans for this ride.  Lightnin' Loops (Six Flags' name for the new coasters) are the same two shuttle loops that were to be called the Double Header, under Hardwicke's management and the Pritzker Family's ownership of the park.  I think it's probably very likely that the contract to purchase the two coasters was actually signed by Hardwicke's leaders, especially when you consider that all three of the loop coasters added to SFOT, SFOG, and AstroWorld for the 1978 season were Swartzkopf coasters, and only LL was Arrow.  If I recall correctly, Six Flags claimed to be spending $6 million on capital improvements at GA that year.  LL was $2.7 million of that.  I have no idea what the Americana Music Hall cost or the cost to build the LL Cafe and replace the Big Fury, Dream Street Dazzler, and the Wild Flower.  

Just a thought as to why the entrance was not located in Fun Fair.  First, the ride's footprint basically forms an "X"  as opposed to a plus sign (+).  The X results in the area to the right and left of center being larger than the area above and below the center point.  You'll notice that the area between the two loading stations as built, is a smaller area than what it would have been had you simply reversed the red/upper loops loading station with its reverse platform.  The area between the blue/lower loops loading station and red/upper loops reverse platform (as well as the area between the red/upper loops loading station and blue/lower loops reverse platform) are essentially the sides of the "X".  The distance between the two loading platforms would have been significantly larger had you simply reversed the ends of the red/upper loop than how it was actually built.  In addition, had the entrance to the rides been in Fun Fair, it would have put the entrance to the rides, at least partially behind Fun Fair's pizza and hot dog stands as well as the Enchanted Bandstand and restrooms.  As built, they were able to add Lightnin' Loops Cafe to the backside of Gingerbread Fancy (a new revenue source), whereas they might have had to remove the pizza and hot dog stands as well as the bandstand had it been built with the entrance in Fun Fair.  Probably a lot more economical and logistically easier to build as we knew it.  But, who knows?  They may have also had plans for new warehouses, administration building, wardrobe, cash control, etc. on the board already.  We lost the Safari Shootout (a revenue source) after the 1980 season. In its place for 1981, was service vehicle access to the park, new employee parking, wardrobe, a satellite cash control for getting and dropping tills, and the ice house all opening and accessible from its former location.   I like to think that there was a lot more thought put into growing the park and improved efficiencies back then.

Giant Wheel, Aqua Spectacle, and Runaway Train.  Probably a little skewed by the family next door who had already visited and raved about the Giant Wheel, the high diving show, and the Runaway Train.  The Great Arena's Chariot Races, Best of the West's giant logs on the roof, and Garden of Marvels were big favorites of theirs as well.  

My reason for the Giant Wheel was that the entire family rode together and it gave a great view of the entire park.  Aqua Spectacle because we had heard about the divers and dolphins and had never visited Sea World or seen those types of live performances before.  Runaway Train was definitely influenced by my neighbors who thought it was such an incredible ride and told my mother and father to beware of that small hill over the lake and how it pops you out of your seat.

It's also important to consider that I had visited Disneyworld, Busch Gardens, and Hersheypark prior to visiting GA for the first time.  Word of Mouth (the neighbors, again) was a huge factor in my parents taking us for the first time.  Also, my father was glad it was another park that served beer.  Although, unlike Busch Gardens, you had to pay for it at GA.

The original intended use for the Great Arena was certainly not concerts.  If it was, there were far different designs that would have been more appropriate for a concert venue.  I understand that concerts have been a significant portion of the arena's usage over the years.  But, honestly, I don't think it's ever been considered an excellent venue for concerts, largely because of its seating layout and sound quality.  My point, however, is simply that most, if not all, of the Six Flags parks are lacking in shows and performances that can, and have, drawn the family demographic that the current CEO claims he wants more of in the parks.  That being said, the Great Arena remains a very large venue capable of hosting all sorts of performances even though it may not be the best layout for certain types of shows.  And, it remains one of Great Adventure's original icons.  Losing it, for me, would be a lot like losing the Big Wheel or Fort at this point.  Without them, or refurbished/new versions of them, I just see the park becoming a slab of concrete with rides thrown down (and most of those rides are rollercoasters that do not hold universal appeal for the family demographic).  Heck, at this point, even losing the four tents would be a serious detraction from what charm the park still holds for me.