Day 23- Add Overnight Accomodations

[GAcoaster]

[GAcoaster]

Time and time again I've heard the complaint that there is no where remotely close to the park to stay. With THREE parks, there is easily two days worth of things to do on property, and when you also have golf courses, the beach and historic sites nearby, there are plenty of reasons why guests would stay at the park.

[coastercrazy9]

Honestly, if we have the money to do this and really step up the theming, we could compete with Universal, or maybe even Disney!

[Thunderbolt]

I don't think Six Flags could ever compete with Disney and Universal. It's just too expensive. "Toy Story Midway Mania" alone clocked in at $100M, almost half of Six Flags's entire Capital Expenditure. That was just for the Orlando Version! Six Flags could buy 4 or 5 B&M Dive Machines for that. It's largely the reason Premier Parks invested in big coasters versus interactive attractions. Six Flags could compete on the level of Busch Gardens or Sea World however in terms of CapEx. This would require new management and ownership however. Current management seems to have abandoned the idea of more immersive theming. Premier Parks plopped down some "parking lot coasters" ("Scream" at Magic Mountain being the most notable offender). When Premier Parks decided to actually theme a section however, they did it in a way that rivaled Busch Gardens or even Universal ("The Golden Kingdom" and "Hurricane Harbor" prior to Red Zone are my primary examples.)

 

Premier Parks, specifically Burke discussed on-site lodging at Great Adventure. It was planned by Premier, but quickly was abandoned by Red Zone after the takeover. Harry would be able to elaborate further on this (even a small spotlight on the proposed hotel would be awesome!). Lack of on-site lodging continues to be foolish by Six Flags Management. They are in effect, "leaving money on the table." If I ran Six Flags, I'd quickly look to reshape Great Adventure as a destination with the hotel as a "phase 1" initiative. With lodging as a revenue source, I'd reduce the (or rather eliminate), the "Boardwalk" games section to expand "The Golden Kingdom". Games would be moved to fill in other unoccupied space in the park (specifically in "The Golden Kingdom Trading Outpost"). Adding an indoor waterpark and golf course would also provide a way to operate the hotel year-round (think "Great Wolf Lodge"), as well as stage a Christmas event.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Thunderbolt

[gafreak]

well said Thunder..

[GAcoaster]

We asked specifically about this and we were told (and I do see the logic in the explanation) that the real problem with building a hotel is they wouldn't be able to advertise the hotel in the most logical markets to advertise it in (Boston, New York, DC) because they don't want to canibalize business from the other Six Flags properties in those areas or cause confusion (advertising attractions at GA, then having guests show up at their smaller local park to find it's not there). Basically they could build it but not advertise its existence.

 

The way around this would be to partner with a hotel chain (which would get someone else to foot the bill for construction as well), though the hotel chain also would be prohibited from advertising any connection to the park in those markets.

[ShoreNCoasters]

I don't think Six Flags could ever compete with Disney and Universal. It's just too expensive. "Toy Story Midway Mania" alone clocked in at $100M, almost half of Six Flags's entire Capital Expenditure. That was just for the Orlando Version! Six Flags could buy 4 or 5 B&M Dive Machines for that. It's largely the reason Premier Parks invested in big coasters versus interactive attractions. Six Flags could compete on the level of Busch Gardens or Sea World however in terms of CapEx. This would require new management and ownership however. Current management seems to have abandoned the idea of more immersive theming. Premier Parks plopped down some "parking lot coasters" ("Scream" at Magic Mountain being the most notable offender). When Premier Parks decided to actually theme a section however, they did it in a way that rivaled Busch Gardens or even Universal ("The Golden Kingdom" and "Hurricane Harbor" prior to Red Zone are my primary examples.)

 

Premier Parks, specifically Burke discussed on-site lodging at Great Adventure. It was planned by Premier, but quickly was abandoned by Red Zone after the takeover. Harry would be able to elaborate further on this (even a small spotlight on the proposed hotel would be awesome!). Lack of on-site lodging continues to be foolish by Six Flags Management. They are in effect, "leaving money on the table." If I ran Six Flags, I'd quickly look to reshape Great Adventure as a destination with the hotel as a "phase 1" initiative. With lodging as a revenue source, I'd reduce the (or rather eliminate), the "Boardwalk" games section to expand "The Golden Kingdom". Games would be moved to fill in other unoccupied space in the park (specifically in "The Golden Kingdom Trading Outpost"). Adding an indoor waterpark and golf course would also provide a way to operate the hotel year-round (think "Great Wolf Lodge"), as well as stage a Christmas event.

 

This is very well said. I wish management would actually listen to our ideas, and run with them...

 

 

We asked specifically about this and we were told (and I do see the logic in the explanation) that the real problem with building a hotel is they wouldn't be able to advertise the hotel in the most logical markets to advertise it in (Boston, New York, DC) because they don't want to canibalize business from the other Six Flags properties in those areas or cause confusion (advertising attractions at GA, then having guests show up at their smaller local park to find it's not there). Basically they could build it but not advertise its existence.

 

The way around this would be to partner with a hotel chain (which would get someone else to foot the bill for construction as well), though the hotel chain also would be prohibited from advertising any connection to the park in those markets.

 

Hampton Inns are nice.

 

Do you think Great Adventure will ever slip away from the Six Flags brand? If they did, would more of what we want to see, become a reality you think?

[GAcoaster]

Great Adventure brings in a LOT of money for Six Flags so unless someone is ready to cough up a fortune for it, it's not happening. There's a better chance that some of the OTHER Six Flags properties could get sold off, but with the way the company is performing financially right now, I doubt it. The stock is through the roof!

[Thunderbolt]

We asked specifically about this and we were told (and I do see the logic in the explanation) that the real problem with building a hotel is they wouldn't be able to advertise the hotel in the most logical markets to advertise it in (Boston, New York, DC) because they don't want to canibalize business from the other Six Flags properties in those areas or cause confusion (advertising attractions at GA, then having guests show up at their smaller local park to find it's not there). Basically they could build it but not advertise its existence.

 

The way around this would be to partner with a hotel chain (which would get someone else to foot the bill for construction as well), though the hotel chain also would be prohibited from advertising any connection to the park in those markets.

Personally, I find the cannibalization logic to be specious. Six Flags America and Six Flags New England are single day attractions at best (Time Warner deemed the latter to small to be a proper Six Flags Park). The former has barely seen investment by Six Flags for almost a decade. Both parks also remain far enough away, that even with lodging, Six Flags America and Six Flags New England may lose a single family admission once a season at best. A premium resort, at premium prices (coupled with premium service most importantly), would entice people from greater distances than a 4-5 hour drive ($100+ per night is too expensive for the average regional theme park patron, in a close proximity). Season Pass customers to Great Adventure would also continue to purchase passes at the Agawam Ma and Mitchellville MD, parks where they sell at a discount. The hotel would be a magnet for customers beyond a 6-12 drive, and would be unlikely to visit a Six Flags park that doesn't provide the Great Adventure experience. At the end of the day, Six Flags Corporate benefits. The hotel keeps customers at the most premium priced Six Flags park. It also forces greater out of pocket spending by customers, versus simple in-park impulse traps. A partnered hotel would shatter the profit margins. Six Flags needs to realize income greater than current in-park spending will yield.

 

Honestly, it's this type of short sided reasoning that keeps Six Flags an "also-ran" enterprise. Cedar Fair has no problem attracting visitors to both Kings Island and Cedar Point with on-site lodging. Disney also advertised Walt Disney World in markets clearly in Disneyland's territory. Six Flags has great assets at its parks with a lousy show experience. Until management realizes that the latter matters as much as the former, they will continue a need to "give away the gate".

Edited December 25, 2011 by Thunderbolt

[The Master]

Six Flags St Louis had a gret nearby hotel that I stayed at. It had a huge indoor pool area, it was just really nice. That would be the type of hotel GADV could use.