Thunderbolt

Like many of the "flagged" Premier Parks; "The Great Escape" is too small to be branded a proper Six Flags property. You either dilute the brand further to accommodate it, or spend ridiculous amounts of capital to bring it in line. The latter crippled Six Flags under Kieren Burke. "The Great Escape" would be better off branded and marketed as is for both the park and parent company.

If Six Flags ever wants to go public again, this was a needed step. Kudos to the Board of Directors for recognizing this, as well as installing Mr. Weber on an "interim" basis. Six Flags often tries to position themselves as a "theme park" operator, as opposed to an "amusement park" operator ala Cedar Fair. While this may seem like semantics; it actually is quite the divide. I haven't really followed Paramunt Parks too closely, so I'm not familiar with Al Weber's performance as a CEO. Despite well utilized tie-ins to various Viacom properties under his tenure (and their ownership before Viacom became CBS Corp. That's no mistake in terms by the way. "Viacom" is actually a new company separate of the old Viacom.), theming levels and ride decisions were questionable (Hypersonic anyone?). Hopefully unlike previous management, Mr. Weber won't be seeking unwanted movie studios to acquire or inserting his bosses recently purchased fast food joints all over his parks (Johnny Rockets is owned by Daniel Snyder). I see this as a positive step forward for Six Flags, and can't wait to hear Mr. Weber's vision for the company. Ideally Six Flags can cherry pick someone from Busch Entertainment or Universal Orlando. We'll miss the cheap season passes, but will welcome the commitment to quality.

I'll sum it up in a word; hooray!

I happen to agree with "RobertDavid" 100%. What exactly has Mark Shapiro done that succeeded? Considering he's made every single mistake and excuse he chided previous management for (on an albeit smaller budget), he's done nothing to "right the ship". Burke and PKS faced much tougher circumstances than Shapiro which sunk their ship. "9/11" triggered a economic crisis too. Credit dried up, and stock prices dropped. It more importantly affected the entire theme park sector for years with steep downtrending attendance. People were legitimately terrified to visit "high profile" places with large congregations. PKS would have shown profits in 1998 and 1999 if not for "flagging" some of their smaller parks. 2000 I believe was a decent year too, but "9/11" killed everything. PKS also GREW the company and established it as an international brand. Burke's ultimate mistake was trying to build "Rome In a Day". Had he went slower, or never had an unforeseen, unprecedented atrocity; he might had succeeded. Mark Shapiro didn't do an extraordinary job of anything. Six Flags was saved by the bankruptcy courts, shareholders losing EVERYTHING, and bond holders willing to swap debt for equity. Mark did manage to save his job after the court kicked Snyder out. For that he should be commended. Daniel Snyder is bemoaned for several reasons. Snyder was the catalyst for a hostile takeover that resulted in Burke (in a move to save his butt with a pricey real-estate sale) foolishly closing Astroworld. He setup the proposal that ultimately won him the company. Snyder presented the vision of running the company more a kin to a sports property with higher pricing and bad policies (no re-entry). He recruited someone with ZERO theme park or "hospitality" experience to run a troubled company. Mark Shapiro was a controversial figure at ESPN Original Entertainment; who managed to piss off the NFL with "Playmakers" (A little birdie expressed great joy among the top brass with his departure). SIX remained in a identity crisis with declining revenues and ballooning debts. Mark Shapiro tried to say the right things, and to his credit has been accessible. He simply failed to execute a plan, show any signs of stabilizing or growing the company, or finding a way to reduce debts without filing for bankruptcy. Six Flags can be a great company. With proper leadership and vision, I truly believe it can be a regional destination. It's too bad the court didn't remove Shapiro and appoint new leadership. I believe recruiting someone from Busch Entertainment or Universal would know how to move the company forward. RedZone's key criticisms of PKS (abridged): *Marketing - "Mr. Six doesn't present the image of clean family parks". Replacements: Post apocalyptic, dark ads featuring coasters appearing from nowhere, and a derided screaming Asian Stereotype. Finally, they bring back the popular "Mr. Six" some 4 years later. *Theming "We're not just going to plop down coasters anywhere" "No More Goliaths!" "No Tilt-A-Whirls". Results: Exactly that, plopping down "The Dark Knight" in its unfinished glory in "Movietown" and "Orleans Place" (Six Flags Great America). Superhero overlays and "Johnny Rockets" in the Old-West and Old Mexico respectively. GCI wooden coasters (good ones thankfully) with questionable tie-ins. *SBNO Rides "I hate SBNO rides. Rides should all be open with the parks. Coasters should be running with multiple trains". Result: multiple rides removed without replacement, fully functioning attractions left dormant, "Medusa" opened at noon. That's a simplistic overview of SIX under Shapiro, but it highlights many of the hypocrisies.

You make the most important point; i.e. "quality". Six Flags needs to decide whether they're a proper "theme park", or simply an amusement park operator ala Cedar Fair. Until the company can commit to a quality, cohesive vision beyond lip service, they will remain a "disposable" (i.e. a nice day trip, but not a big deal to visit) destination. Six Flags is scheduled to emerge from bankruptcy on Monday May 3, 2010. Its debt has been greatly reduced, but still hovers in the ~$1B ball park. Mark Shapiro has to demonstrate he can grow this company. No more excuses and no more blaming "old management". Every mistake and success from this point out belongs to him.

Sadly, those numbers don't reflect the deep discounting Six Flags, Disney, and partially Universal provided to entice visits. Six Flags "gave away the gate" with steep discounts on Season Passes, "The Big Six Pass", and "Everyone Pays Kid's Price" promotions. I don't have the data to support how much worse attendance in 2009 would have been without it, but I'm sure the declines would have been much greater. Not having a hotel on-site is clearly hurting Great Adventure too I believe. Look at Hershey Park's higher attendance. One could make a case the benefits of on-site lodging, even at a regional theme park helps bring in more guests. It encourages longer stays and increased visits too. Hershey may be a better run operation than Six Flags and specifically Great Adventure; but there's no reason it should draw greater considering locales. Burke was correct in wanting a hotel (which Shapiro is on record as being against). Lodging has helped Cedar Point. "Disney's California Adventure" ("DCA") attendance is the biggest surprise of all. The "failing" theme park ranked #11 globally, and #6 in North America. Most operators wished they could fail so good! Like Six Flags however, one must wonder if those numbers were "juiced"? How many DCA visits were park hoppers, promotional SoCal "2fers", or overflow traffic from Disneyland? I would suspect those numbers to sharply decrease, but still wind up ahead of SIX. Universal Orlando's numbers have to be greatly disappointing. Universal Orlando has to be the greatest non-Disney destination in the world. It opened a new attraction at Universal Studios Florida and jettisoned some of their deep discounts. Attendance dropped like a stone. "Harry Potter" better do something quick. 10%-11% drops are scary. SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment ("BEC") continue to impress. Despite having significantly less properties and discounts than Six Flags; they almost outdraw them. BEC is renowned for their operations, and show you people will pay for quality even at the regional level. What's scarier for SIX or even Cedar Fair is they don't need excessive properties and cut-throat promotions to achieve their numbers. I would say, even without SeaWorld Orlando, BEC is a more valuble asset and an operation with superior senior talent.

People who constantly blame others for their own failures. Corporate CEOs being the target here. If you can't fix the problems you inherit, then you don't belong there. Take some personal responsibility and own up to your mistakes. Failures and mistakes happen. I understand that. As long as you admit your "evils", I can easily move on (as long as I'm not an investor). It actually makes me want to help where I can.

I would actually say the Premier Parks additions shaped this park into its flagship form. From "Medusa" and "Looney Tunes Seaport" in 1999 through "El Toro" in 2006, many of the Premier Parks additions remain among Great Adventure's most popular attractions. I would also state despite misplaced rides ("Superman") and highly questionable theming ("Nitro"); PKS demonstrated willingness to properly theme an area. "The Golden Kingdom", "Plaza de Carnivale", "Hurricane Harbor NJ", the Looney Tunes and Balin's Jungle areas compete with some of the best themed sections in the industry. I find it sad we couldn't see Great Adventure advance into the multi-day destination envisioned with the Hotel, but Six Flags as a whole lacks a competent vision outside of lip-service. Certainly PKS had there share of failures too. "SBNO" rides and removals, lack of non-coaster additions beyond the "War on Lines" package, and deferred maintenance stand out the most. Of course, "current management" has pretty much operated the parks as in a similar fashion, as the previous sentence beyond mid-2006. Additions to the park since "El Toro" remain questionable at best. They often appeared as elements the park has already covered; while neglecting what it needs. "TDK's" $7.5M could have went a long way into leasing/purchasing "flats", refurbishing rides and buildings, and buying a replacement Zierer Wave Swinger. Theming under "Red Zone" has been almost non-existent or questionable ("Bizzaro" ties into "The Old West" as much "Superman" does on an "Air Force Base"), and their show eliminations make the park's missing elements stand out further. Time Warner tried to theme the park, but their contributions outside of "Skull Mountain" have all but faded. "B&R:TC" was the boldest addition to the park post "Batman The Ride" (an excellent example of ride/theme experience in 1993), but like "Viper", the simulator theater, and "B&R:TC", they failed to maintain guest approval. I guess I'm one of the few here who actually LIKES Superman. Now "The Great American Scream Machine" on the other hand....

Are the parts so heavy, that it's just (pardon the expression) "cheaper to keeper"? Depending on the build of materials, they may posses little scrap value.

I would imagine it would be cheaper to buy a new one, than refurbish that model. "Joust-A-Bout" has been sitting dormant and exposed in the boneyard for years. The cost to repair the motors, electrical, and control systems would cost a small fortunate at this point. Granted, I'm speculating. The park maintenance staff and Intamin would assess it and make a decision. Current management shares no passion for "flat" rides. Like B&M Rollercoasters, Mr. Shapiro doesn't feel they add value to the park from a marketing standpoint. I refer to this as the no "Tilt-A-Whirl" edict, based on comments Mark made regarding "flat" ride removals from Magic Mountain. As far as I know, SIX has yet to purchase a new "flat" ride, or operate the currently owned rides on a regular basis. I still think Intamin AG is missing a huge opportunity by not reintroducing these models.

I also loved those aspects of "Joust-A-Bout". The dueling boats were fun. I forgot about the tassels and the alternating red/white bulbs above them. Someone really needs to have Intamin bring back these classics!

Having friends who interned/worked for ESPN during Shapiro's tenure (ask WWE's Jim Ross about his plane ride with Mark Shapiro. He also found him to be as such.); I doubt they'd like to work for him. He's a tad egotistical. The only way I'd see Busch Management come to Six Flags is for senior positions such as the CEO role, or for big $$$ and certain budget guarantees for the parks. Mark Shapiro has been accessible, and I'll commend him for that. Most of his decisions, outside his "reality distortion field" have been suspect at best. Busch Management teams used to being able to run top tiered parks, with appropriate backing. All the budget issues Six Flags has, along with the "No More Goliath/Tilt-A-Whirl" (i.e. big coasters and new "flats") edicts won't cut it with them.

There goes another air conditioned respite in the Great Adventure concrete jungle. Why wouldn't they just return "Dino Island II" until they could add something better?

Kudos to the Great Adventure Team for granting access to their archives. The "Joust-A-Bout" was one of my favorite "flats" in that park as a kid. It provided nice amounts of "floater air" when they ran it in the forward/reverse cycles. Kind of a shame Six Flags didn't contract additional models from Intamin (the Inheritor of the Schwarzkopf Catalog). I loved watching the twinkling yellow bulbs at night. "Da Vinci's Cradle" at Busch Gardens Williamsburg is a similar ride, although it was a single "boat". It's been more years than I'd like to admit since I've last been there. At the time, "Da Vinci's Cradle" was an airtime machine.

You got to give the "Lady of the Buccaneer" a lot of credit. Almost 30 years later, her boobs look as good as the day she was installed. (I hope this is not too risque for the forum.)

Mark Shapiro also said he hated SBNO rides, building coasters, unbalanced parks, and Mr. Six. We see how that worked out (he reneged on almost everything stated in the RedZone Takeover Proposal).

^Oh lord, please no! There's a reason why Arrow Dynamics no longer exists as a separate entity. Their products have been simply outclassed for almost two decades. I too love the first drop. From there (with all pun intended), it's all down hill. My last ride in 2008 felt like I was riding on square wheels. The middle is tolerable, but any ride in the back seat is worthy of death. G.A.S.M. was the ride that saved Great Adventure. For that it deserves an honorable decommission. However, its time has come. I would keep it as a lawn ornament. It's pretty in its current location. D.H. Morgan, the de-facto successor to Arrow (since folded into ChanceMorgan) made a decent "Hypercoaster". S&S Arrow doesn't build enough coasters to count in my book. Arrow Dynamics will be remembered for building rock solid, high throughput, pain inflicting machines.

If the cost is actually $25 at Great Adventure; this could prove to be one popular up-charge. The only downside I see is liability in case of accident. Six Flags better have signed iron-clad indemnity contracts where Whirl assumes total liabilities.

Hearing about "death panels" and other absolute lies regarding healthcare reform. Fact #1: The United States does *NOT* have the "best healthcare system" in the world. According to the "World Health Organization" the United States ranked 37th in the world. The U.S. also ranked 45th for life expectancy. The U.S. has continued to rank #1 in healthcare expenditure per capita (a statistic that keeps me gainfully employed at an HMO). That is not a statistic to be proud of. Healthcare is one of the most impacting costs an individual or family can face. Whether its paid to private enterprise or a government; healthcare premiums are a tax. You can certainly opt out of coverage (just like one can "hold their breath"); but in the event of catastrophe; you can also kiss away your life savings in one fell swoop. The U.S. is one of the few countries on Earth, where medical bankruptcies occur en masse. As far as "death panels" are concerned; let me describe my job. I find reasons to drop you. In cases where cost of care, be it long or short term depending on policy is great; I look for reasons to deny benefits. Largely, we look to find something medically relevant you failed to report when applying for coverage. A "pre-existing condition" if you will. However, these discrepancies I look for are not like failure to report Cancer. More like failure to report hospitalization for pneumonia. Failure to disclose medical events is grounds to void policies in most HMO Guidelines. At that point, we can drop you at our leisure (at least until 2014 now, but there's debate over the current language in "Obamacare" that may provide us an end-run). This sounds a lot more like the "death panels" people fear about, but don't realize already exist with today's HMOs. Lastly, the United States is *NOT* a Democracy. We are a "Representative Republic". There is a huge difference. I do get a laugh when people say "Jeffersonian Democracy". Now I need to turn off the news.

One initiative I applauded Mark Shapiro on was returning the poster sized maps in 2006. Sadly, they seem to be gone again. I believe these "Information Center" kiosks appeared in 1988 under Park GM Ray Williams. Prior to that, the park used wooden "hooded" poster boards that weren't lit, placed sparsely around the park. Harry has a few of the latter pictured on the site (though I forget in which collection or spotlight). I wish there was a way to contact Ray Williams, and get his take on the park and company as a whole. He saved Great Adventure from closure, and I think he could provide an interesting take on the current state of both the park and Six Flags. I think an interview with Larry Cochran and Kieren Burke would also prove intriguing.

The pivotal Conan O'Brien penned episode that transitioned "The Simpsons" from a semi-realistic dysfunctional family, into the beloved circus it is today. That is one of my personal favorite episodes in the show's long history.

Six Flags does not own all the "flat rides" at Kentucky Kingdom. Many rides, including the Ferris Wheel (Vekoma) were actually leased by Premier Parks from Chance and Vekoma upon acquiring the park from local Louisville businessman Ed Hart. Interestingly enough, it was Mr. Hart, not Premier Parks who was responsible for installing the property's larger attractions (namely Chang). Eric Gieszl's Ultimaterollercoaster.com has a great discussion on Kentucky Kingdom, specifically from forum member "Shaggy". http://www.ultimaterollercoaster.com/forum...cgi?read=207821

I *LOVED* the "Rolling Thunder" sign as a kid! I fondly remember the lightning flash and the two comets (?) lighting up from tail to head. That ride used to pack a crowd in the 80's. Man, I would love to see a full GCI rehab and some Millennium Flyer rolling stock (at least either fin or magnetic breaks replacing the skids and greased tracks).

July 1983 indeed. "Cables Eric" astutely pointed out the "Haunted Castle" (which I didn't notice until reading his post). Freefall is in the picture, so it has to be at least 1983 (so long A!). The "Haunted Castle" fire was May 1984 IIRC (eliminating C). There's no signs of the "Looping Starship" eliminating D. (opened in 1985).

Xanadu is all but dead. It was an ill-conceived proposition to begin with (another "mall"? really?). It's even less successful than Hard Rock Park/Freestyle Music Park. I would take the latter for $25M however and relocate the rides.