Medusa

[JetsDevs4Lyf]

Screamscape has had a few interesting tidbits the last few days regarding Medusa opening on irregular hours compared to the rest of the park. Apparently the park has figured that most people will not get over to ride it until later in the day and is holding off on opening Medusa until around noon. You can check out a few more details on it here. I guess for now we can take it for what it's worth, but I'm sure most of use remember other rides getting this treatment in the past and not always coming away from it well.

[GAcoaster]

I have no problem with some attractions having delayed openings or early closings, especially when it's not yet peak season. Medusa is so far removed it makes a lot of sense to wait for the crowds to build before opening it. I'm also sure that just like the "Memorial Day" opening of the Log Flume these rules are not hard and fast, but more CYA rules to reduce the staffing for slower times. If the crowds warrant it, it will open earlier, just like I'm sure if the crowds warrant it, the kids sections scheduled to close at 8PM will stay open later.

[JetsDevs4Lyf]

^Good point as there really isnt anything else back there and it is almost certain anyone heading in that direction is gonna hit one of the newer guys along the way as there isn't too much besides the Flums and Train to pull people through Frontier Land. I really wasn't thinking of that before but it does make sense in the end. I suppose we will see how it plays out through the summer. Management seems to have a pretty good grip on things like this.

[GAcoaster]

I have faith in Mark Kane. Since he has taken over, the staff is friendlier and more efficient, and the rides are all running more reliably and with much better dispatch times. If they decided to open Medusa later, I would assume they have a good reason behind it.

[Thunderbolt]

I have no problem with some attractions having delayed openings or early closings, especially when it's not yet peak season. Medusa is so far removed it makes a lot of sense to wait for the crowds to build before opening it. I'm also sure that just like the "Memorial Day" opening of the Log Flume these rules are not hard and fast, but more CYA rules to reduce the staffing for slower times. If the crowds warrant it, it will open earlier, just like I'm sure if the crowds warrant it, the kids sections scheduled to close at 8PM will stay open later.

 

This is a practice Mark Shapiro lambasted during the Red Zone takeover. Why these lousy policies are accepted now, and not during the Burke years; escapes me.

[GAcoaster]

Almost everything they dinged the old management on during the takeover is what they are now doing, now that they know some more of the realities of the theme park industry. It's easy to criticize from the outside when you don't know the business. They are learning by listening to the experienced members of the senior management in the parks as to what works and why which to Shapiro's credit is what he said he would do. I think there should also be "Early Season" and "Late Season" tickets sold to match the realities of this, although that is effectively done through the aggressive discounting of tickets done during the spring and September.

 

Also, the big difference with Burke era operations was that many rides would not run at all for days or weeks. In this case it just means you might have to come back a little later or earlier in the day to ride something. While it's not ideal, when they are short staffed it is a fact they have to deal with, and it's better to communicate it like this than to just have rides sitting untouched with no sign letting people know whether it will ever be open that day. In the "old" days you would never know when or if a ride would ever open.

[JetsDevs4Lyf]

Also, the big difference with Burke era operations was that many rides would not run at all for days or weeks. In this case it just means you might have to come back a little later or earlier in the day to ride something. While it's not ideal, when they are short staffed it is a fact they have to deal with, and it's better to communicate it like this than to just have rides sitting untouched with no sign letting people know whether it will ever be open that day. In the "old" days you would never know when or if a ride would ever open.

 

I couldn't agree more with you on this. I can remember times when I would go to see if a ride was open and nothing, then later in the day I would leave and be like damn look it's running now, as I made my way to my car. I think it is nice that they are at least making it known that certain areas or rides are going to have different operational hours than the park ahead of time now. The industry certainly has to be a complex one, especially with a seasonal park like ours is. Management has done a good job keeping things running smoothly and this year seems to be going well so whatever they have chosen to do, is most likely the result of some brainstorming for a solution that works for everyone. I see Medusa most likely being openin some mornings during the summer as the crowdss really beginning to pack into the park as they have been known to do. The real snag is waht was said before, there isn't much around Medusa in terms of thrill rides to get people into that area right off the bat, so it makes sense to open it later in that sense.

 

[29yrswithaGApass]

Staggered attraction and area openings are a common practice by some of the best theme parks in the industry. Sea World Orlando does it with the far side of their park and Disney's EPCOT does it with the World Showcase. It just makes good business sense and when properly communicated does not inconvenience park guests.

 

 

[GAcoaster]

I think that was what bothered me most about these kinds of things in past seasons was the lack of communication. The park has its own sign shop which does an AMAZING job...how hard is it to get a sign made up letting guests know these things? Now that it's posted, I think people will be a lot more understanding and be able to plan their visit better.

[Thunderbolt]

Almost everything they dinged the old management on during the takeover is what they are now doing, now that they know some more of the realities of the theme park industry. It's easy to criticize from the outside when you don't know the business. They are learning by listening to the experienced members of the senior management in the parks as to what works and why which to Shapiro's credit is what he said he would do. I think there should also be "Early Season" and "Late Season" tickets sold to match the realities of this, although that is effectively done through the aggressive discounting of tickets done during the spring and September.

 

If that's the case, Red Zone's acquisition of the company goes down as an unmitigated failure for shareholders. Six Flags PAID $135M directly back to RedZone covering Snyder's takeover costs. That money could have been better spent improving operations chainwide, or paying down the principal debt. Don't forget, it was RedZone's takeover offer that forced Premier Parks to put the entire company up for sale, as well as selling off the Astroworld property (enacting a "poison pill" if you will. Burke hoped the speculated $150M appraised property value would stave off shareholders approving the RedZone offer). RedZone has watched the share price circle down the toilet.

 

I certainly hope Shapiro is listening to senior management at the park level. His hubris had all but killed Magic Mountain, and left a "this place is closing" stigma that still resonates with locals. Jay Thomas and crew have made great strides improving the park, despite being left for dead by corporate during the past 2 years. I really hope that time will showcase the park isn't going anywhere, and is still open to thrill. I also love the fact Jay Thomas keeps the entire place running when guests are in the park. I wish Mark Kane did the same, but I think the corporate overlords are running his show for him. I'm speculating, but I remember how they cut him off at the knees last year with the B&R:TC fiasco (promising to actually address all failing areas of the ride as a whole, vs. the patch jobs done previously; only to see his promised jettisoned a week later as the blow torches were lit en masse).

 

Also, the big difference with Burke era operations was that many rides would not run at all for days or weeks. In this case it just means you might have to come back a little later or earlier in the day to ride something. While it's not ideal, when they are short staffed it is a fact they have to deal with, and it's better to communicate it like this than to just have rides sitting untouched with no sign letting people know whether it will ever be open that day. In the "old" days you would never know when or if a ride would ever open.

 

Burke left rides SBNO. Shapiro ripped them out. 6 of these, half dozen of the other I guess. We all know the removals (and SBNO status before) were done to reduce staffing costs. Premier Parks added a lot of major attractions to offset the ride removals too (something RedZone has yet to do, and I don't consider TDK worth the purported $7.5M cost).

 

Had Six Flags reduced gate pricing (prices before coupon or online discount) as you suggested, I might be more sympathetic to the delayed openings. I was actually going to say exactly what you did about seasonal pricing (Dorney Park does this when Wildwater Kingdom is closed. Prices are reduced at the gate by $12). Considering all the ride removals made at Great Adventure, I do expect them to open all rides with the park as the park opens later, requires less staffing overall than in years past, lacks shows, and closes early. Let's not forget, Six Flags has not increased staffing expenditures. Shapiro & Co. wisely reduced the full-time staffing chainwide, and utilized the savings to hire more seasonal employees (I read that in last year's 10-K filing I believe.).

 

I also agree Great Adventure's sign shop is under-appreciated. They do a great job, and I do like the more "open" communications.

Edited May 22, 2008 by Thunderbolt

[Thunderbolt]

Staggered attraction and area openings are a common practice by some of the best theme parks in the industry. Sea World Orlando does it with the far side of their park and Disney's EPCOT does it with the World Showcase. It just makes good business sense and when properly communicated does not inconvenience park guests.

 

That's precisely the reason my family avoids EPCOT, Animal Kingdom, and Sea World. Judging by the weaker attendance numbers at those parks, the GP also disapproves of this practice. Universal had the entire park open for business during the first two weeks of December 2004. We felt like the only people in the park, and they were more than happy to have us. I honestly rank Universal as the gold standard of theme park operators. Busch is my second. I love Busch Gardens, and they're what Six Flags should aspire to be park wise.

[The Master]

Dorney Park opens all their rides at the same time, I am sure GAdv can as well. At least they have a sign posted, (saw it today in person at the park) back in the 90s the park would never have posted such a sign. But it still sucks they have to pull this with the loss of so many rides in recent years and the promise of increased capacity which is only half kept. They did run all 3 of Nitro's trains today but El Toro was only running one train all day which caused really long, slow moving lines for it.

Edited May 22, 2008 by The Master

[29yrswithaGApass]

That's precisely the reason my family avoids EPCOT, Animal Kingdom, and Sea World. Judging by the weaker attendance numbers at those parks, the GP also disapproves of this practice. Universal had the entire park open for business during the first two weeks of December 2004. We felt like the only people in the park, and they were more than happy to have us. I honestly rank Universal as the gold standard of theme park operators. Busch is my second. I love Busch Gardens, and they're what Six Flags should aspire to be park wise.

 

For 2007, EPCOT's attendance was up 4.5% to 10,930,000; Animal Kingdom was up 6.5% to 9,490,000; and Sea World Orlando was up 1% to 5,800,000 (Source: 2007 TEA Report) so I would hardly say these are "weaker attendance numbers".

 

As far as the change in plans with Chiller, I think the ride's poor design, consistent down-time and high maintenance costs were the primary reason in pulling the plug. After all the money and effort they poured into it I think any intelligent management team would have cut their losses and removed it so I doubt anyone was undermined in the decision.

 

In regards to the current management team at GA, I think a visit to the Park speaks volumes for the outstanding job they are doing. It is once again clean, beautifully landscaped, the employees are very friendly and helpful, ride closures due to maintenance issues are minimal with a high throughput, and the new code of conduct has made it safe and enjoyable once again. I have been a season passholder for almost 30 years and I feel the Park is the best it has been since the Time Warner years in the mid 90s. I am very confident in the direction Great Adventure is heading under Mark Kane and his team.

 

Listen and watch the Guests as they leave the Park for the day. There may be fewer rides but there are a lot more smiles than in recent years!

 

 

 

[Thunderbolt]

For 2007, EPCOT's attendance was up 4.5% to 10,930,000; Animal Kingdom was up 6.5% to 9,490,000; and Sea World Orlando was up 1% to 5,800,000 (Source: 2007 TEA Report) so I would hardly say these are "weaker attendance numbers".

 

As far as the change in plans with Chiller, I think the ride's poor design, consistent down-time and high maintenance costs were the primary reason in pulling the plug. After all the money and effort they poured into it I think any intelligent management team would have cut their losses and removed it so I doubt anyone was undermined in the decision.

 

In regards to the current management team at GA, I think a visit to the Park speaks volumes for the outstanding job they are doing. It is once again clean, beautifully landscaped, the employees are very friendly and helpful, ride closures due to maintenance issues are minimal with a high throughput, and the new code of conduct has made it safe and enjoyable once again. I have been a season passholder for almost 30 years and I feel the Park is the best it has been since the Time Warner years in the mid 90s. I am very confident in the direction Great Adventure is heading under Mark Kane and his team.

 

Listen and watch the Guests as they leave the Park for the day. There may be fewer rides but there are a lot more smiles than in recent years!

 

I mean overall weaker attendance numbers vs. the Magic Kingdom. Yes, I also understand there is less to do at the other Disney Parks. EPCOT and Animal Kingdom also saw new attractions with Soarin', the rehabbed Spaceship Earth, The Seas with Nemo and Friends, and Expedition Everest open. It's natural those parks would have a spike in attendance.

 

Regarding Six Flags, I also remember the Bally, Time Warner/Boston Ventures, Premier Parks, and RedZone years quite well. During each regime, Great Adventure has had its ups and downs. I would argue the park was easily at its worst in the mid-80's prior to Ray Williams taking the reigns. Time Warner did a decent job with the park, but they are also responsible for Viper and B&R:TC; so you can hardly say they were perfect (I don't believe you are for the record). Personally, I still say the park benefitted most from Premier Parks. Superman Ultimate Flight, Medusa, Nitro, El Toro, and especially Kingda Ka would have never seen the light of day under RedZone. Projects like The Golden Kingdom and Plaza de Carnivale are also doubtful. I think Great Adventure suffered during 2002-2004, as the economic downturn forced the entire industry to cut back spending Things rebounded during 2005 and continued to until mid-2006. I do believe PKS would have gotten around to the lacking customer service aspects (Burke admitted this was a problem during a 2005 Magic Mountain visit), but he was ousted in a boardroom coup. The park is cleaner today, no doubt. I also think part of the park's "dirty" reputation lies with the fact almost all management teams prior to Time Warner didn't even bother to paint/maintain ride appearances. The Gum Wall in the Runaway Mine Train and Roarin' Rapids queue did little to remedy the reputation. As for Mark Kane, I wish I could share your enthusiasm. I don't want to fault him unjustly, but the park's lack of shows and intermediate rides is appalling for the $60 gate price the place commands. Cedar Point manages to deliver everything Great Adventure should with a $17 discount ($42.99 gate price). I don't question Mark's passion for the park. I know he worked there for years (can he bring back The Chinese Golden Dragon Acrobats to the Americana Music Hall (neé Showcase Theater? I'll settle for the Evolution of Rock, or The Red, White, and Blue Revue at this point!). I just don't think he's being given the tools to make the park the success it should be. It's late and I'm tired, so I probably could/should expand my thoughts here. Losing the fireworks still bothers me (my Dad more-so).

 

Great Adventure has been seeing a landscaping rejuvenation since 2005. I do applaud the efforts being made on this front. The "No-Smoking" policy also gets kudos from me. The rest of the conduct policy seems to be the same as ever, except it's now in writing.

 

B&R:TC deserved its fate. The park also didn't bother fulling rehabbing the ride by replacing the missing LIMs and generator removed in years past either. Didn't Mark Kane mention this during the GADV Online event last year? Didn't he mention the ride would finally get the full rehab it never received by all previous managements? You know it was corporate who (wisely) put the bullet in the coaster's head and overruled Kane's proposal/promise to fix it. I'm sure Premier Rides also paid the cost to replace the heartline spins, with the humps, to avoid getting their pants sued off ala Togo for the lemon they sold (with a serious design flaw).

[GAcoaster]

I honestly rank Universal as the gold standard of theme park operators. Busch is my second. I love Busch Gardens, and they're what Six Flags should aspire to be park wise.

 

Busch does staggered opening of whole SECTIONS of the park at BGE.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Busch does staggered opening of whole SECTIONS of the park at BGE.

 

Busch Gardens is what Six Flags should aspire to be in the areas of theming and ambiance. Six Flags also shut down entire sections indefintiley, although "The Old Country" doesn't feature major attractions like Kentucky Kingdom's shuttered Twisted Twins. Universal is the standard I'd like to see for ops.