Gr.Adv. Debate #2: Kingda Ka - Wise Investment or Waste of Money?

[29yrswithaGApass]

I think everyone would agree that the Golden Kingdom was a great addition but what about Kingda Ka specifically?

[Yoshi]

I voted waste of money because of all the problems/downtime the ride has had and the amount of money that not only the park spent on the ride but all the maintenance too. Last year I wasn't even able to ride the coaster after May because it was closed when I went in June and then closed for the rest of the year in the fall and that was just one of the many multi month closures of the ride since it opened.

 

I realize that it was a big deal to get the world's tallest and fastest coaster but although the launch is like nothing else I have ever tried before, the ride itself isn't that great to me. It's probably my 6th favorite coaster at the park and I would have rather seen the park get a smaller Intamin Rocket Coaster that would have been more reliable like Storm Runner or even something like Cheetah Hunt.

[coasterfreak96]

I think the addition of Kingda Ka has attracted worldwide attention for the park, therefore increasing attendance. Not to mention, it is a great ride!

[The Master]

While KK is a great ride it is still prone to breakdowns, GADV has always had trouble upkeeping complex rides. It does take away resources that could be used in other areas. Lastly it tends to act like a magnet for yahoos, riff raff, and getto trash, drawing in a rougher crowd to the park. KK's line always has the nastiest people in the park waiting in it. Back in 2005 a group of people running though the queue knocked me down to the ground and this year a guy freaked out and grabbed me. I have never been in any other ride line in any park, even SFA that I have had seen this kind of crap happen.

Edited October 7, 2012 by The Master

[gafreak]

kingda ka is a great ride, it is the tallest, technically its fastest in 6 continents,and was worth every penny, initially it was an estimated 25 million dollar project but after all was said and done actually cost almost 110 million dollars. it may seem like alot of money but who ever said breaking records was cheap. wise investment on the park, world renowned recognition and publicity is never cheap...

[scipiomask]

While it was expensive, I don't think it was a waste of money. I agree that it bought the park international fame, and it was part of an effort by SFI to turn our park into a premiere amusement park destination. It think it's too bad that they didn't get to continue.

[GAcoaster]

I believe if it wasn't for Kingda Ka and its yearly maintenance costs we'd still have several of the rides we lost like the Enterprise, Flying Wave, etc. While the cost of Kingda Ka has never officially been put out there, it is rumored to have cost about $50 million, which could have paid for two really good B&M coasters instead which would have been better investments. Yes, it has brought the park attention, but building a series of really good coasters would have done the same thing. El Toro was half the cost and is twice the ride and will be bringing crowds for many more years than Ka will.

[Thunderbolt]

Considering "Top Thrill Dragster" cost $25M (source: Cedar Point Press Release http://www.rcdb.com/...htm?dt=126&d=82), I doubt "Kingda Ka" and "The Golden Kingdom" remotely approached $50M. Hindsight being 20/20, it wasn't worth the money. Without question, "The Golden Kingdom" and all it encompassed was worth every penny.

 

"Kingda Ka" has been a popular attraction, and put Great Adventure in the "world class" pantheon of parks. It's been the subject of many specials, all of which provide free publicity to Six Flags and Great Adventure world wide. What kills "Kingda Ka" is its terrible reliability. With its high operating costs and terrible reliability, it's been a boondoggle worthy of "Batman & Robin: The Chiller". Had "Kingda Ka" suffered only from 1 problem (reliability or operating cost, not both), I'd lean toward positive territory. It's hard to deny the experience "Kingda Ka" provides. While we may have grown accustomed to its launch, that initial experience was nothing short of amazing.

 

Like many things under Premier Parks, Six Flags rolled the dice and lost on this one long term. The hopes of eliminating the bugs from "Top Thrill Dragster" never materialized. "El Toro" mitigated the need for "Kingda Ka" as a signature attraction.

 

Would Six Flags have invested the maintenance capital not needed by "Kingda Ka" into other Great Adventure attractions? Hard to say honestly, but doubtful especially with the incoming Shapiro/Redzone Era. Mark Shapiro would have ripped every single one of those attractions out regardless. I wish I had the link still, but he stated he would have cancelled the "El Toro" contract, had it not been too far along. He said he would rather put a park bench in place of a "standing but not operating" ride, and did that chain wide (versus staffing or actually MAINTAING said attractions). This man failed to understand the intellectual property he possessed (He embarrassingly stated to investors, he had no idea what the target audience of the "The Dark Knight" film was, yet built several "FAMILY" attractions to it.), and the very things that made Six Flags popular (i.e. the "No More Goliaths" edict). At least Red Zone is gone, and Six Flags is making some small strides.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Thunderbolt

[The Master]

I agree Thunderbolt, Shapiro just wanted to cut costs by any means. He also had some pretty bizarre plans like those stupid coasters cuts. Heck he canned the popular Mr Six for that screaming head, he just really didn't know what to do. While KK probably does help draw people to the park, it's sadly mostly trash that give the park a rough image.

Edited October 7, 2012 by The Master

[GAcoaster]

They HAD to cut costs under Shapiro (the company was in really dire financial straits). I think several of the other rides could have been saved without it. Look at Great America...they didn't lose all their flats.

 

Shapiro wanted to unload Kingda Ka when they were working on Six Flags Dubai.

[The Master]

GADV was the closest to SF HQ at the time. Shapiro said GAdv would be the flagship park with him in charge and would be the test bed for new ideas. What that really means after taking the nice PR spin out is that he would experiment with different cost cutting schemes at GADV to see how well they worked before he did it to the rest of the parks. That is why GADV got the worst of Shapiro's cost cutting. I am sure if he had his way he probably would have converted all the SF parks into malls with a few rides. It will be many more years before GADV recovers from the Shapiro scars. I am glad he is gone but I doubt Fitzgerald is any better.

[GAcoaster]

I'm not sure where you get that theory from, but generally its not true. Great Adventure like all the parks is run as a self sustaining business unit that contributes to the overall corporation. There was a lot of belt tightening necessary 2006 onward because of reckless spending in 2005-2006. The park is recovering from that, but Kingda Ka from what I know costs as much to run as the entire maintenanace budget of most parks. The company emerged from bankruptcy and is profitable because of that belt tightening, and is reinvesting again now, but still has a hige financial burden primarily due to that one ride that brings guests to the park but is also a huge budgetary drain.

 

Shapiro tried his "outside the box" (generally crappy) ideas in all the parks and if anything, Great Adventure was spared from the worst (Operation Spy Girl, Club 6, etc.). He turned all the parks into fields of advertising and ruined the charm and character in many, but overall Great Adventure got off easy only losing a few rides. Imagine losing the Big Wheel (like SFNE did) or the Skyride (which most parks did before Shapiro). Yes we lost a flume, a splash boat and a couple of flats, but we kept many unique things in that time that would have been bigger losses. I credit Mark Kane for fighting for those things when tough decisions were made. I would love to have saved them all (and I'm sure he would have too) but sacrifices had to be made and losing Kingda Ka would have solved most of that but was not a practical solution unless they could have found someone to buy it and recoup a significant portion of the costs.

[gafreak]

During a backstage tour of Ka I asked about the cost of the ride. At time of completion the ride was around 48 mil, to date they have spent almost 100 mill on maintaining the ride. During the start of full time operation of the park, Kingda Ka is never fully shut down. The ride has 3 crews that monitor and maintain it 24 hours a day. Those costs never get recouped.

[The Master]

I don't understand how GADV got off easy since under Shapiro the park lost the Moon Flume, Freefall, Chiller, Splashdown, Spin Meister, Sim Theater, rodeo stampede, Looping Shuttle, Flying Wave, Autobhan, and the Flying Wave which I thought was the most ride losses in any of the SF parks of that era. Shapiro himself at the time declared GADV as the chain's flagship park and also declared that it would serve as a test bed for new ideas for the chain under his tenure. Perhaps it didn't seem that way to you but it did to him when he was CEO. However we are getting off topic so I guess we will just agree to disagree.

I do know that KK does draw alot of people to GADV, guards escort stampedes of people to the ride. However do those extra people offset the operating costs of KK is a good question. If GADV didn't have KK people would still come by the droves to the park anyway. Also KK is 8 years old now so much of it's novelty has worn off now in the coaster community. KK really doesn't attract families either, just mostly obnoxious teens and low class adults. KK is probably more for bragging rights than anything else for SF. GADV can never be as popular as the warm climate parks that can be open 365, no matter how many fancy coasters they can stuff in. The park is only open everyday for a quarter of a year, open on weekends for another 3 so that is not even open half the year. The park still mostly just draws in people from the local Philly and NYC metro areas, I doubt it draws that many people outside of the two metro areas.

Edited November 30, 2012 by The Master

[OCMDBeach1]

I say get ride of Kingda Ka & bring back Mark Kane. Mr. Kane was always very polite to my best friend & I whenever we saw him in the park. He always asked how his employees were treating us & if we had any problems. He ALWAYS wanted to know our thoughts on how we thought the park was doing. Unfortunately I do not get the same friendly feeling from John FItzgerald.

[Chiller]

Mark was one of the best things that ever happened to the park. The park was the best it has ever been under his management.

As for Kingda Ka, it was a very good decision. It was the worlds tallest and fastest roller coaster. It made appearances on many national science and travel TV shows. It got the park worldwide recognition. If they had to do it all over again, I think they would, even with all of its problems.

[pizzaman10000]

Kingda Ka was overall a good investment. It gained worldwide attention and opened as the tallest and fastest coaster in the world. It was extremely popular when it opened and still is seven years later. And it is one of the best rides in the park in my opinion.

[owtoty]

I think KK was a good investment because it attracts people from everywhere. The first time I rode it, I met someone in line from Washington. They flew all the way to NJ just to ride KK!

[ThemeParkRider]

Kingda Ka has become an icon to the amusement industry across America. I'd say thats a wise investment.

[Kate Vizzard]

Great investment

[The Master]

GADV needs to invest in better lighting around KK. Parts of it's queue are totally dark at night as is the exit stairway. It really is a safety hazzard. Heck even KK's sideings are better lit than the ride queue and exit. I have yet to see a ride queue and exit as poorly lit as KK's.

[Yoshi]

I agree, it really needs lighting added. After I walked down the stairs and was walking towards towards the entrance to get back in line, there was a spot where the pavement is uneven and I lost my balance. I really don't like walking through the queue with no lights either.

[Guest Moonracker7]

well it highth has paid off with a record drop tower going to be clipped to its head called ZDOD

[The Master]

I wonder if the queue and exit for the new drop tower will also be as poorly lit at night?