NJ veteran says SF denied him admission

[DANofNJ]

http://www.nj.com/ocean/index.ssf/2014/08/nj_veteran_says_six_flags_denied_him_admission_over_shirt_supporting_marines.html#incart_m-rpt-1

 

way to treat veterans, SFGadv

[RideOfSteel]

I actually agree with Six Flags. Their dress code doesn't allow violent images or text, and this is definitely violent. I don't think that's appropriate attire for a family friendly place.

[DANofNJ]

But women's breast and butt hanging out are family friendly. And all the vulgar language you hear is family friendly. Its a t shirt. Way to treat a veteran for protecting this country.

Edited August 14, 2014 by jdc12192
language

[jdc12192]

I don't think it has anything to do with him being a veteran. Rules are rules and being a veteran isn't a excuse. Bend a rule for one, have to bend it for 100 more. The shirt wasn't related or flat out showed anything as proof of a being a veteran. All it does it blatantly advertise shooting a gun which is not appropriate.

 

Even people in the park that are dressed as dan says i have seen them be told to cover up etc. Bathing suits are not allowed to be worn in the theme park. I have even seen security tell men to pick up their pants if they are sagging below their butt.

Edited August 14, 2014 by jdc12192

[joeyc98]

I have seen people without their shirt on be told to put on a shirt or buy one or leave. Six Flags maintains its dresscode, that's for sure. And i agree with them on this.

[scott]

I appreciate the service and sacrifice this man gave to his country and to us but his shirt does not look like it is in support of the military. The symbol for a branch of military is not seen anywhere in the photo. I wouldn't have thought anything of it but i can see the parks point. When actually considering the message on it, the shirt looks like it's practically advocating gun violence. Maybe if it did have the insignia form one of the military branches it would be different. Personally I don't find the shirt threatening or obscene but that's just me. I think its all fun and games until someone loses an eye.

The park does have a policy or dress code that I agree with but maybe it could have been handled better, by the park and Mr. Alejandro.

[GAcoaster]

I suspect his account of the story is more than a little exaggerated. I have never heard the staff dealing with these cases be anything but respectful about it. I worked in Guest Relations and had to deal with these kinds of things and Security doesn't want to have to do this but it is their job. We see the same problems here at Disney every day as well. People just seem to think that anything is appropriate even if it has overtly sexual or violent images or inappropriate language. This is not the Walmart, it is a theme park with a dress code and it is private property.

[Nitr0o]

But women's breast and butt hanging out are family friendly. And all the vulgar language you hear is family friendly. Its a t shirt. Way to treat a veteran for protecting this country.

amen to this

[SFGadv123]

Six Flags is right actually. They have to treat everyone the same. If they let that guy in and someone else with a somewhat inappropriate shirt came right after and they said no, you can't just be like "oh we let him in cause he is a veteran." You need to treat all people the same no matter what. Now anyone coming in with that shirt should be allowed in because it isn't offensive, but since six flags saw that as offensive, its their call and they have the right to deny him entry.

[jonlee]

I think the whole dresscode thing is unbalanced. They find that shirt offensive but let other inappropriate clothing in. More than half the teen girls in the park wear things that are too revealing. At the same time though, it's a matter of taste and personal opinion. The security guard and the "supervisors" found it offensive so he was denied entry.

[gencx]

Park is in the right here. The shirt doesn't say anything like "Proud Veteran", it depicts a rifle and the words "shoot back". Wholly inappropriate for a family theme park. And being a veteran doesn't mean rules don't apply to you.

[GAcoaster]

I'm sure they have a very specific policy of "no depictions of weapons" for clothing. It does't matter the context, a shirt with weapons is not appropriate for a theme park and specifically for a theme park that had to add metal detectors to keep weapons out.

[DANofNJ]

well SF is getting a ton of media attention on this incident. Its on many of the pro gun 2nd ammendement facebook pages. It was on Fox News, NJ news 12, CBS . A ton of veteran facebook pages.

[The Master]

The park is fully in the wrong here. There is nothing wrong with an image of a rifle on a shirt. I wonder if this had taken placed in SFOT which is more pro gun rights than NJ, if that park would have objected. I remember SFAW used to have a sling ride supported by giant pistols, is that out of place for a park? Then there is the fighter plane in GL's queue which is a much more deadly weapon than a M16. Did the old shooting galleries, not belong in parks because they feature guns and shooting at targets? What about the PGO shotguns the Joker's henchmen had in the broken effects in TDK, the park is behaving like hypocrites. This whole story has really lowered my opinion of the park. Disrespected a vet over hyper PC crap.

 

However the park does have the right to refuse what ever they want, even through some of us may object to their decisions. I am baffeled people get so upset over an image of a rifle yet shirts with the F word or images of marijuna leafs and other illegal drug or sex images are allowed in without question. I just don't see how exercising our First Amendment rights to show support for our Second Amendment rights seem offensive, or even dangerous.

 

Anyway the story has been picked up by The Truth About Guns site. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/08/daniel-zimmerman/disabled-marine-denied-admission-six-flags/

Edited August 16, 2014 by The Master

[GAcoaster]

It still comes down to one fact, the park is PRIVATE PROPERTY. They set the rules whether you agree with them or not and when you choose to visit you agree to follow their rules. If their rule was all men have to wear shirts with My Little Pony and all women had to wear burkhas, those are their rules and if you wanted to go to the park and purchase a ticket you have to abide by their rules. It's all in the legal language on EVERY admission ticket.

 

I fully agree that the context of why he had the shirt was OK, but when the policy is no weapons related images, it had to be the same for a veteran as it is for a thug wearing a shirt with a gun on it (which is why the rule exists).

 

When it comes down to it the park and the company overall are fairly right wing. The park president is a military veteran. They have hosted Sean Hannity's "Freedom Concert" benefits for many years with the whole host of gun rights advocates in tow. They also host several military events every year, and even give military discounts on admissions. The policy is in place and the Security force is there to enforce it equally for everyone.

[scott]

I see that while i was typing out something to post that I ended up losing the park has apolojized to Mr. Alejandro.

 

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/08/15/six-flags-great-adventure-apologizes-to-marine-kicked-out-of-park-for-offensive-shirt/

 

I'm sorry, I don't know how to post this as a link.

 

In the story there is a quote from The Reconnaissance Foundation that they would like a statement from the park explaining what is offensive about this shirt since the foundations does not think its offensive.

The problem with this request is that finding something offensive is subjective. The park want to be family friendly and needs to have a more critical view on offensiveness. i didn't find the shirt offensive but when i was at the park yesterday i found the amount of people wearing yoga pants stretched so thin they were transparent offensive. someone else may not have had the same feeling..

[The Master]

"Stay calm and return fire" isn't offensive, it is defensive since returning fire usually is an act of self defense and not of aggression. Also I just don't see how an image of a rifle could be offensive to anyone regardless of who is wearing it, military, LEO, normal citizen, or gangbanger, etc, I just don't see what there is to get worked up about. The park lets people cut lines, shove and push other guests, curse up a storm, do drugs inside the park, drink booze in the park, yet they decide to harass a guy over a stupid image that doesn't hurt anyone, an image that isn't about something illegal or obscene, the park chose to make a problem out of a non-problem and I hope this bites them back hard. Maybe they will learn something for once. Maybe instead of worrying about being ultra PC, why don't they focus on the real problems like line cutting.

 

If GADV is so worried about not offending people about guns, then why don't they remove the .50 caliper machine guns and sound effects from the Batcycle in TDK and remove the laser tag maze since that features laser guns. This whole thing really is asinine of the park.

 

Also some right wingers are not pro gun rights and some left wingers are not pro gun control. Not everyone falls perfectly into the two party camps. In fact some right wingers are Fudds, which is a slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally only like old style "sporting firearms" like bolt action rifles and treat owners/users of so called "non sporting" modern firearms like handguns or semiautomatic rifles with unwarranted scorn or contempt. They are named after Elmer Fudd.

[29yrswithaGApass]

^I think someone in Aurora, Colorado or Sandy Hook, Connecticut would find the shirt very offensive.

 

Personally I don't find it offensive, but in this overly politically correct society where you have to cover your butt every second or risk being sued, certain steps and "codes of conduct" need to be made. You are never going to please everyone.

[The Master]

I agree you can't please everyone.

[pashacar]

Agreed, Harry. The shirt is much less offensive *with context*, but that context wouldn't be immediately apparent to many park guests, myself included. Also the guy is clearly a ham with the media circus he's made over this.

[DANofNJ]

Im 100% sure the SF parks in Texas would not have asked this Vet to leave or change shirts.

[Thunderbolt]

Great Adventure offered to admit the patron, provided he changed his shirt. I do not see the problem there. As a private concern, on private property, they are entitled to refuse service for any reason. While I too did not find the shirt offensive, I respect Six Flag's position and offer to compromise. In reality, this is no different than a restaurant refusing service because you lacked proper shoes.

 

That being said, how security allegedly spoke to the guest unacceptable. I can't believe they were so crass. Usually I would say the conversations were embellished, but I found the same attitude from Six Flags personnel with far more frivolous concerns. In deference to this gentleman's service, I would have comped him a "clearance" t-shirt and admitted him. I'd also discuss the matter in a setting where guests aren't present. You also ask to speak outside the presence of young children. Saying "I don’t care, get out of the park." is unacceptable. Anyone who's watched "Roadhouse" knows the #1 rule in dealing with unruly guests. Always be nice and choose your words delicately.

 

If the gentleman refused a free t-shirt, then Six Flags would also be 100% justified and this is a non-story. If Mr. Alejandro refused to accept it, he has no ground to stand on. As a person from a family long history of military service, being a "vet" does not entitle you to be a jerk.

 

Six Flags Over Texas maybe would have admitted this guest. As the Supreme Court of the United States has stated over numerous cases, decency / offending standards are determined locally. What plays in Dallas also does not play in Austin. If SFOT were in Austin, Mr. Alejandro likely would have been refused admission, had he refused to change his shirt.

 

Again, I did not find his shirt offensive. I also agree others may have. The shirt does not bare military insignia. Someone would not be able to establish context, with a superficial glance. That is the reality.

 

Great Adventure's security may pick and choose what rules they enforce. Largely it comes down to what they feel they can easily control. I know there are far worse matters overlooked at the park.

 

Making this story about a "gun rights" issue is ridiculous in my opinion.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Thunderbolt

[The Master]

Personally I just don't find the shirt offensive, I kind of like it really. Also I feel context should not really matter either, it should not matter if he is a vet of Joe smo who never served. Saddly this does somewhat concern gun rights since the chain is promoting the idea that guns are bad. The park should not be promoting what they think is good or bad, period. Perhaps they don't mean to push an ideology but that is what they are doing. Screamscape has weighed on this and I agree with their view. http://screamscape.com/html/six_flags_great_adventure.htm

 

 

 

Meanwhile kids are running around in t-shirts with Transformers or Ninja Turtles on display, armed to the teeth, and no one says a word.

Edited August 19, 2014 by The Master

[RC98]

^ Well if you're going to go there, then I'd say that promoting action heroes is a more accepted form of "violence" than possibly promoting open gun fire, since the shirt can be taken that way even if it isn't meant to be. It's really a matter of opinion, I admit I'd feel a bit off-put if I saw someone with a shirt like that but others would think nothing of it.

Edited August 19, 2014 by RC98

[jdc12192]

SF apologized and has invited the family back as VIP's.