RobertDavid Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 I'm originally from New Jersey and have been going to great Adventure since it opened. I was a performer in the Showcase Theatre in 1988. I then went to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg and spent 10 years at Walt Disney World. Great Adventure is still my home and holds the dearest spot in my heart. I come back every year to visit. Unfortunately, I am usually very saddened by what Six Flags has done to the park each year and it seems I will be very disappointed when I see the park next. The 3 things that will be difficult this year are the addition of Dark Knight, the removal of the Super Teepee and the removal of the Flying Wave. The removal of the Teepee is by far the most troubling. I understand they had every intention of keeping it in the park, using it as a character breakfast location, and only removed it because it was structurally unsound. However, this could have been avoided with proper maintenace. I would hope they would replace it, but knowing the park's history I seriousely doubt that will happen. The Flying Wave is also a huge loss for the park, not only because it is a great ride, but also because of the atmosphere it created in that section of the park. Hopefully it will return, or they will buy a new one to replace it. The Dark Knight appears to be a huge, ugly gray warehouse housing what I hear is nothing more than a wild mouse roller coaster. Everyone seems pretty disappointed in this ride considering where ride technology is at these days and how the structure overpowers what used to be a forrest, before becoming "Movie Town", which in itself makes no sense. This is my biggest problem with Six Flags. Since they purchased the park they have systematically destroyed the environment to the point of no return. Rides and buldings can be repaired or replaced, but the forrest can never be regrown, at least not in the next 100 years. What used to be a beautiful park spread throughout a forrest and fancifully themed is now no more that a slab of cement with rides on it. There are ways to expand a park without cutting down every tree in sight and building rides in the parking lot. I hope they realize this before doing any more damage and I hope they try their best to save the remaining unique elements of the park. I have a horrible feeling the Big Wheel or the skyride may be the next park icon to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAcoaster Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 Hi RobertDavid...welcome to the site! Unfortunately the losing the Flying Wave and Super Teepee were due to YEARS of neglect by previous management, and a big part of that was the inconsistency of one management team to the next. Busch and Disney are great examples of how a consistent vision of one park owner produces better results. Hopefully now things are improving for the park (things have definitely improved over the past year and a half). The new management at the park level is definitely on the same page, but budget and time constraints (especially budget right now) has meant that all those things will have to be addressed and rectified over time (just like they deteriorated over time). Were you in the Red White & Blue Revue (I think that was the show for 1988)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkridedan Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 ^ If not, were you in a Legends type show? I remember a show from around that time, but I don't remember what year it was performed. Great Adventure managers need to write the book on what works for it and how it needs to be managed and they should force Six Flags to stick with it, like Great America does. If the park is such a a cash cow for Six Flags, I will never understand why they treat the park as badly as they do. A park that has four B&Ms and four kiddie sections shouldn't be with out bumper cars! Premier really put the park in a pickle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daved Thomson Posted August 2, 2008 Report Share Posted August 2, 2008 I'm originally from New Jersey and have been going to great Adventure since it opened. I was a performer in the Showcase Theatre in 1988. I then went to Busch Gardens in Williamsburg and spent 10 years at Walt Disney World. Great Adventure is still my home and holds the dearest spot in my heart. I come back every year to visit. Unfortunately, I am usually very saddened by what Six Flags has done to the park each year and it seems I will be very disappointed when I see the park next. The 3 things that will be difficult this year are the addition of Dark Knight, the removal of the Super Teepee and the removal of the Flying Wave. The removal of the Teepee is by far the most troubling. I understand they had every intention of keeping it in the park, using it as a character breakfast location, and only removed it because it was structurally unsound. However, this could have been avoided with proper maintenace. I would hope they would replace it, but knowing the park's history I seriousely doubt that will happen. The Flying Wave is also a huge loss for the park, not only because it is a great ride, but also because of the atmosphere it created in that section of the park. Hopefully it will return, or they will buy a new one to replace it. The Dark Knight appears to be a huge, ugly gray warehouse housing what I hear is nothing more than a wild mouse roller coaster. Everyone seems pretty disappointed in this ride considering where ride technology is at these days and how the structure overpowers what used to be a forrest, before becoming "Movie Town", which in itself makes no sense. This is my biggest problem with Six Flags. Since they purchased the park they have systematically destroyed the environment to the point of no return. Rides and buldings can be repaired or replaced, but the forrest can never be regrown, at least not in the next 100 years. What used to be a beautiful park spread throughout a forrest and fancifully themed is now no more that a slab of cement with rides on it. There are ways to expand a park without cutting down every tree in sight and building rides in the parking lot. I hope they realize this before doing any more damage and I hope they try their best to save the remaining unique elements of the park. I have a horrible feeling the Big Wheel or the skyride may be the next park icon to go. Just wanted to let you know that I agree very much with your observation... Great Adventure was amongst the most beautiful parks in the country (along with The Old Country - Busch Gardens) and a major part of that beauty came from the painstaking consideration given to the possible removal of each and every tree before one would be removed. The feeling of escaping to somewhere else really was produced, in large part, by the canopy of trees, excellent landscaping, and the larger-than-life theme elements. The recent loss of so many trees (by recent, I mean late 90's to present), from what I know and observed as an employee as well as a guest, began when Basil Hanger (I may have misspelled his name) passed away. Basil was hand picked by Warner LeRoy and was responsible, initially, for all horticultural aspects of the park. Basil remained with the park well into the Six Flags years and, unfortunately, passed away in the late 90's... About the time that Premier Parks purchased Six Flags. The War on Lines of 1999 brought signifant numbers of new rides to the park, but it also resulted in the elimination of many more trees. I do believe, however, that Mark Kane understands the importance of this park's natural beauty. And, certainly, Larry Cochran (the first of the Six Flags VP/General Managers to run the park) understood the importance of it. In fact, the park's natural beauty was amongst the reasons Six Flags bought Great Adventure. But, like you, I am mistified that a structure like the Super TeePee was removed. It was, in essence, another tent structure not all that different than the four Dream Street tents (which have had their canvas roofs replaced over the years). Replacing the rotted logs with steel imitation logs and putting a new canvas over them, just doesn't sound unreasonable or very expensive. Yes, I can understand budget issues can cause delays, etc. When the park loses a structure like the Super TeePee, however, it really amounts to poor planning, combined with too many general managers coming and going in succession. I hope, as I am sure you do, that you are wrong about the Skyride and Big Wheel being on the chopping board. If true, we would then have a rotting Fort not worth maintaining to go with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29yrswithaGApass Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Flats have come and gone and coasters have been built higher and higher, but in my opinion the Skyride and the Big Wheel are still two of THE best rides at Great Adventure (the Log Flume rounds out my top three). To loose them would be tragic. As for the Fort, it is to Great Adventure what Sleeping Beauty's Castle is to Disneyland and Spaceship Earth is to Epcot. Without question, it needs to maintained so that we never see it removed. (^You got the right Daved.. here's a link to the press release about Basil Hanger.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) Unlike the Teepee the Fort has a much stronger steel and concrete understructure but the wooden fort facade over it is rotting away. The Dark Knight is a good ride but the outside is ugly, they should paint it to look like a soundstage or something. Edited August 3, 2008 by The Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkridedan Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) It looks like a soundstage already but since I like the ride that's inside I don't mind. For the first time, the Iwerks building looks like an eye sore. Daved, I never thought of the '99 rides being a reason for the removal of trees but I suppose Medusa and Looney Tunes Seaport took the place of thick forestry. Chaos and Time Warp took the place of a few trees and I can only imagine how many trees were removed for Nitro. The creation of Movie Town hit me hard. I think I kept looking over and was puzzled why I could see La Pizzaria from Gingerbread Fancy. I get puzzled looks when I tell people that Fun Fair was my favorite section and Movie Town is one of my least favorites. I wonder why they wouldn't save more trees with Splashwater Falls and by placing Batman in the Garden of Marvels spot and Mach 1 in FreeFall's spot but history being what it is, knocking down more trees can only be prevented in the future. I am thankful that they haven't placed a B&M in Fantasy Forest, save for Nitro. Edited August 3, 2008 by darkridedan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAcoaster Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 To me the worst removal was the trees along Dream Street between the 2 sides of the path. They were removed in the Time Warner era to open up the view of Yum Yum, which while I appreciate WHY they did it, took away from the beautiful shade over the paths. The real problem of the trees being removed from the park has been that some of them have not survived the addition of pavement around them (and maintenance vehicle hitting them), and some have just been dying of old age. All that is expected, but unfortunately as it happened many were not replaced (yet). The "War on Lines" did take a huge toll on the trees, with many areas which had still been thick stands of old trees being cleared to make way for new rides. With the removals of those rides over time, it just has underscored how much pavement there is and how many trees are gone. I do have faith in park level management to remedy the problem as much as possible over the coming seasons as time and money are available. It's frustrating to have so many things you want to do, so many things you need to do, and so few resources to do them all. I know removing the Super Teepee and Flying Wave was something they REALLY didn't want to do, but there was no other choice after things were found to be worse than anticipated. All the deferred maintenance under Premier management really caught up with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 (edited) It looks like a soundstage already but since I like the ride that's inside I don't mind. I meant painting something like Movietown Soundstage 9 on the sides of the building and maybe paint it tan rather than grey, sorta like the soundstages at Disney and Universal studios in FL. Sadly the Teepee was a poor design since they stuck the logs directly into the ground where it would rot and be attacked by bugs for sure. If they had put the logs on top of concrete footings that would have prevented alot of the rot. Edited August 3, 2008 by The Master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkridedan Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I just think the sound stage thing is hideous as opposed to a Gotham City skyline, but that's me. I never liked the Movie Town theme. I think they will finish painting it to complete the area in the future. I forgot about the removal of the Dream Street trees Tom. There were also the trees removed in the outer mall in 1992 or 1993. I asked a supervisor about Time Warner's removal of trees years later. He said guests were getting hit in the head from falling branches. That may have been the difference without Basil Hanger (thanks for the link!) Much like the flat, they could have saved the trees by trimming the branches instead of removing them altogether. But all is in the past. More trees were removed for the parade than the newest coaster! That's a good thing to me from TDK's point of view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertDavid Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Unfortunately, even making the building look like a soundstage would not make it attractive. Placing this building in the center of the area the way they did makes it extremely obtrusive. Almost all of Disney's rides are built inside these warehouse type buildings, but they are placed on the outer edges of the parks behind facades so that you can not tell. Kind of like Skull Mountain, although I think they did a very poor job on that facade. For those of you that have asked, I was in the "Red , White, and Blue Review", the first year. That brings up another issue, why aren't there any shows at the park anymore? There used to be shows in the Showcase Theatre, the Bandstand on the Lake, a Character show, the Dolphin show, and a diving show. If you really want to attract families, it seems to me you have to offer the adults something to do. The last time I was in the Showcase Theatre they were showing The Wizard of Oz. Who the heck wants to go to a theme park and watch a movie? The past few years I've only made it up to the park during Fright Fest and have seen the Halloween shows. I understand there is a parade, but a park that big really should have entertainment other than rides if they want to attract families. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullets Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 There arent any more shows because of the lack of funds for them. its the main reason why the batman stuntshow is closed and on the way out. the lakeside show should be back realtivley soon, once the park gets passed the EPA sanctions. the loss of the teepee was unfortunate, but when the skin was ripped off during a storm they would have been able to fix it before the season starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertDavid Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I forgot about the ski show. That's another theatre that was vacant my last visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertDavid Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 There arent any more shows because of the lack of funds for them. its the main reason why the batman stuntshow is closed and on the way out. the lakeside show should be back realtivley soon, once the park gets passed the EPA sanctions. the loss of the teepee was unfortunate, but when the skin was ripped off during a storm they would have been able to fix it before the season starts. I don't get this "lack of funds" excuse. Park prices have skyrocketed and yet they can't afford a single show? Why is it that every other theme park company can afford several shows in each of their parks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4Sing Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Did I miss something? When I was there last month, they had the Dolphin show, the Tiger show, live bands in the little bandstand by the fountain,the bugs bunny show, and headliner shows at the Arena. Has all this stuff been cancelled? Sad about the Water Ski show. I remember when that was brand new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertDavid Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Did I miss something? When I was there last month, they had the Dolphin show, the Tiger show, live bands in the little bandstand by the fountain,the bugs bunny show, and headliner shows at the Arena. Has all this stuff been cancelled? Sad about the Water Ski show. I remember when that was brand new. What I was refering to are live stage shows. Bands don't really qualify and the Arena headliners are not daily events. Most theme parks have large production shows with singers, dancers, sets, and costumes. Great Adventure used to have these types of shows in the Showcase Theatre and Bandstand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29yrswithaGApass Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 The last time I was in the Showcase Theatre they were showing The Wizard of Oz. Who the heck wants to go to a theme park and watch a movie? The showing of the Wizard of Oz in the Showcase Theatre was only for one weekend during a Kids Fest event. For those of you that have asked, I was in the "Red , White, and Blue Review", the first year. Are you possibly in any of these photos? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertDavid Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 The showing of the Wizard of Oz in the Showcase Theatre was only for one weekend during a Kids Fest event. Are you possibly in any of these photos? I'm on the far left in the upper left photo, and 3rd from the left holding up my right arm in the bottom right photo. Wow, I don't even have copies of those pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAcoaster Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Unlike most theme parks, Great Adventure is actually in a really bad spot for shows. Where in any other park in the country a traditional "Broadway style revue" will pack people in, our local population is jaded because they have the REAL thing. Shows are expensive for the park to produce, and really don't bring in the guests like they used to in the past. Part of that is the park's doing for letting shows slip away and focusing on rides (once again part of the Premier years). I agree (being a Show-Ops veteran) there should be shows and they should be good shows with adequate budgets like Busch does. Unfortunately, that's hard to justify spending money on. If people don't come for the shows, you can't justify spending the money on them, but if you don't have decent shows, people don't come for them. It's a catch 22. The current Entertainment Department is doing the best they can with very limited resources. The Glow in the Park Parade will go a LONG way to help restore the park's reputation for shows, and hopefully they can build on its success and rebuild the Shows department to what it used to be (and should be). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4Sing Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Robert who is the dancing girl in the picture at lower left? That hairdo sure does bring back memories Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertDavid Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Robert who is the dancing girl in the picture at lower left? That hairdo sure does bring back memories Her name is Janice Lynn. She was a teacher as well as a performer. Her 2 brothers were also in the show. Eric and Gabe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daved Thomson Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Unlike most theme parks, Great Adventure is actually in a really bad spot for shows. Where in any other park in the country a traditional "Broadway style revue" will pack people in, our local population is jaded because they have the REAL thing. Shows are expensive for the park to produce, and really don't bring in the guests like they used to in the past. Part of that is the park's doing for letting shows slip away and focusing on rides (once again part of the Premier years). I agree (being a Show-Ops veteran) there should be shows and they should be good shows with adequate budgets like Busch does. Unfortunately, that's hard to justify spending money on. If people don't come for the shows, you can't justify spending the money on them, but if you don't have decent shows, people don't come for them. It's a catch 22. The current Entertainment Department is doing the best they can with very limited resources. The Glow in the Park Parade will go a LONG way to help restore the park's reputation for shows, and hopefully they can build on its success and rebuild the Shows department to what it used to be (and should be). Just wanted to add my two cents on this whole concept of what brings guests in (e.g., rides, shows, etc.). In the past, Great Adventure, and most theme parks for that matter, marketed the entire park. And, whenever a new attraction was added, the rest of the park's attractions did not take a back seat to the new attraction in their marketing efforts. Not until the introduction of the Great American Scream Machine did the park ever market/advertise/promote a single attraction without including all of the other benefits the park offers visitors in its marketing efforts (more than 100 rides, shows, attractions, picturebook landscaping, acreage, escapism, etc.) Disney and Busch do an excellent job of marketing their parks not their individual specific attractions. And, they consider the approriateness of new attractions to their parks and the section to which those attractions are added. The corporate branding Six Flags has done to its individual parks, especially in their marketing efforts, has been taken to the extreme. When you use stock footage in your advertising that doesn't show one ounce of unique atmosphere offered by the individual park, people will start to perceive all the parks as being the same and have little or no incentive to visit again if they have been to any ONE of the parks. Advertising for each park should target those that have never visited and those that need to be reminded of their existence (when they're open, what they offer, etc.) as a reminder to visit again. They need to be marketing each park for its whole package, not a single attraction. Regular visitors and enthusiasts don't really need the advertising to be drawn to the park. All parks offer rides, rollercoasters, etc. and for the most part, they offer the same rides with some variations. It is the packaging of the park as a whole (rides, shows, attractions, themeing, etc.) that makes one want to visit one versus another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertDavid Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Unlike most theme parks, Great Adventure is actually in a really bad spot for shows. Where in any other park in the country a traditional "Broadway style revue" will pack people in, our local population is jaded because they have the REAL thing. Shows are expensive for the park to produce, and really don't bring in the guests like they used to in the past. Part of that is the park's doing for letting shows slip away and focusing on rides (once again part of the Premier years). I agree (being a Show-Ops veteran) there should be shows and they should be good shows with adequate budgets like Busch does. Unfortunately, that's hard to justify spending money on. If people don't come for the shows, you can't justify spending the money on them, but if you don't have decent shows, people don't come for them. It's a catch 22. The current Entertainment Department is doing the best they can with very limited resources. The Glow in the Park Parade will go a LONG way to help restore the park's reputation for shows, and hopefully they can build on its success and rebuild the Shows department to what it used to be (and should be). I think there are 2 main reasons the shows did not draw a crowd. First of all, they were lousy shows. I had a great time performing there, but I know that even the show I was in was terrible. Second, there just aren't many adults at the park. The park had always been marketed toward teenagers and that was always the majority of guests. That's why I think it's important to offer shows for the adults that do not ride rides to have something to do at the park if they are serious about drawing families. It will take a while of providing quality shows to change the image they have created of having few, any not very good, shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29yrswithaGApass Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I'm on the far left in the upper left photo, and 3rd from the left holding up my right arm in the bottom right photo . Wow, I don't even have copies of those pictures. If you want to drop us your email at feedback@greatadventurehistory.com we can send you the unwatermarked closeup scans of those two shots. If you get a chance, it would be great if you could add your id to our Show Operations Alumni section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J4Sing Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 (edited) I only went in to see the shows the first couple times. I remember my first visit, in 1979, we brought my cousin, and we were having a blast going on the then brand new Rolling Thunder, along with the other great rides, when suddenly the day had to come to a screeching halt so we could have lunch and go in to see a show.(at my parent's insistance, of course) We wondered what we did wrong to warrant such punishment,but the air conditioning was good! We hated the music though,even though the girls in the show were very pretty. If these shows were actually on Broadway, they would close on opening night. lol Another time my Uncle brought us, and dragged us in kicking and screaming to see the show. He let us leave though before it even started because we wouldn't leave him alone to enjoy it. Most memorable was in the Great Arena, 1980 I believe, and the headliner was none other than The Broadway Joe Willy Namath. Willy came out on stage looking completely loaded, and danced and sang his way through about 6 or 7 numbers, all the time grinning and flirting with the background girls in his show. After that, Perthy Pellican aside, I didn't see any more shows at Great Adventure until the original Batman Stunt Show in 93 and the Tiger Show last month. Those were good. I would have liked to see the original 1974 shows at the Great Arena, but that was before my time there. JS edit- I didn't mention the dolphin,diving,and water ski shows, those I saw several times in the early 80's. Those were also very good. Edited August 4, 2008 by J4Sing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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