2017 and Beyond Speculation at SFGA

[Fgcassady]

See what.. I kind of wish they repainted nitro and retheme it

 

SFGADV seems to be getting attractions under 10 million, what other rides are under 10 million? A Huss frisbee is 5 million. Full Throttle costed 6 million. I could really see a Premier ride at this park

Edited November 1, 2015 by 29yrswithaGApass

[pashacar]

I agree, many things aren't ideal. I am just making the point that you don't need to go back to Premier to find what was wrong. Red Zone made the illusion of good ride operations but that was made easy when they reduced the ride count to an all time low.

 

That's certainly fair, and Red Zone had plenty of failures beyond just closing rides and sections: some seriously crappy new attractions, a barrage of obnoxious ads, an annoying locker policy, and removing Mr. Six, to name a few. But at least for me, the positives outweighed the negatives; this isn't the case for everybody, but I'd prefer a friendlier, cleaner, and more efficient park with 10 coasters to a dirtier, rowdier, less efficient one with 12.

 

So yes, I preferred the Red Zone years, and that just comes down to my personal proclivities. I'm not saying it's the most viable business strategy, but just as a Guest I liked seeing so many more costumed characters, I liked how additions like Wiggles World changed the demographics and vibes of the parks, I liked how friendliness was a priority, I liked that security actually enforced the rules, and I loved how much attention was paid to "little things" like bathroom upkeep. Plus I liked how attractions like GITP really elevated the level of showmanship and immersion in the park. I'd trade a few more rides for all of that, but of course not everybody would.

 

And IMO, you can't even compare that with Premier. Sure, Old Country was open and we got big additions, but you were lucky if fewer than 20 rides were closed when you rolled up to the gate. Plus bathrooms were routinely filthy, security was toothless, and employees were largely clueless and apathetic. The fact that GAdv's end-of-the-night ritual went from a 50-person line at Guest Relations under Premier to a high-five line with park management at the exit under Red Zone says a lot to me.

Edited November 1, 2015 by pashacar

[GAcoaster]

Every era of the park has been the best of times and worst of times depending on how you look at it. So many of the "problems" today emanate from the Time Warner era (which was the best time for the park in attendance and growth), but the management side of things gutted the maintenance department to save money, eliminated the second ride attendants at all the flat rides, etc. At the same time, there were shows in EVERY venue, characters everywhere, lots of new theme elements and details added, etc. You take the good with the bad, and know that at some point things will change again and give everyone something else to complain about and look forward to at the same time.

[Fgcassady]

It seems every 5 or 4 years they get a new big attraction, a coaster. I looked at the past and saw for the past 10-15 years, that every 5 years they put in an investment that was over 10 million and was a big coaster. Next rollercoaster I think will be 2019

[Railer]

The "Red Zone" year's was a good era i think in my opinion. My kids were the perfect age for all the "family-friendly" thing's going on then. Night's you had the "Glow In The Park Parade" then the "Saturday Night Light's" Firework's Show were a special time. We had the most costumed characters on the Midway's since the early year's of the park then also. But we would always watch the Parade at a Table on the Porch of the "Yum Yum Cafe", then walk right over to the Grandstand for the Firework's. Perfect way to end a night at the Park.

[Nitro1118]

Personally, I hated the Red Zone years. Shrinking the park by walling off Old Country and ripping out rides left and right outweighed the positives they brought.

 

I feel the new regime is a good mix of Premiere and Red Zone. The park has better staffing and cleanliness than the Premiere days, while adding a lot more on a yearly basis than what Red Zone did. Sometimes it is annoying we don't get $20M attractions every other year, or customer service and shows aren't the priority they were during Red Zone, but staying in that middle ground will do a lot more good for the park's future.

[Fgcassady]

Well 20mil attractions every other year will take more than, every other year

[pashacar]

Personally, I hated the Red Zone years. Shrinking the park by walling off Old Country and ripping out rides left and right outweighed the positives they brought.

 

I feel the new regime is a good mix of Premiere and Red Zone. The park has better staffing and cleanliness than the Premiere days, while adding a lot more on a yearly basis than what Red Zone did. Sometimes it is annoying we don't get $20M attractions every other year, or customer service and shows aren't the priority they were during Red Zone, but staying in that middle ground will do a lot more good for the park's future.

 

Yeah, I think that's mostly a fair assessment. Overall, things are still pretty good. I especially like the RMC push, the technology upgrades, and how smart they've gotten about finding new ways to bring in revenue from passholders while providing new value to them. So for the first few years of the new guys, I was super on-board. They "get" the business a bit more, can be innovative with additions, and seem to want to keep things family-friendly enough.

 

It's only this season that I've started to worry, as they inch more towards the Premier side of the spectrum. I'm lucky enough to visit multiple SF parks each year, and it was very clear that budgets had been cut across all of them in ways that add up to noticeably affect the Guest experience. To name a few example issues: SFNE was running a single, two-car tram on a packed weekend day; SFSL had filthy bathrooms and not a single costumed character or live show all day; and SFGAdv has seen a small renaissance of smoking, line-cutting, and understaffing -- including 40-minute-plus waits to get into the park on the majority of my visits this season. That's in addition to an overall underwhelming slate of new attractions (and attraction names) across the chain.

 

So all in all, yes, we still have it pretty good. But I really do hope they don't go any further with the cuts and undo the progress that was made on the soft side of the Guest experience during the Red Zone years.

[Fgcassady]

In my opinion i think the next coaster will be in 2019, possibly a winged coaster

[Matt Kaiser]

In my opinion, there is very little thought that goes into Six Flags additions. They barely know what we're getting for 2016, never mind 2 or 3 years from now. It really seems like everything comes from corporate, and they operate on a year-by-year basis. Trying to logically guess the park's plans for the next few years is silly for the very reason that SF barely has much logic behind their additions and planning.

/rant

[Fgcassady]

In my opinion, there is very little thought that goes into Six Flags additions. They barely know what we're getting for 2016, never mind 2 or 3 years from now. It really seems like everything comes from corporate, and they operate on a year-by-year basis. Trying to logically guess the park's plans for the next few years is silly for the very reason that SF barely has much logic behind their additions and planning.

/rant

well who doesn't like to guess? And we all love to think of what our theme parks could get

[Password121]

^^I agree. They generally adhere to the pattern of on year/off year for most parks and invest more capital in parks that gross more income. However, unlike some of the larger Cedar Fair parks (the smaller ones are worse off than the smaller SF parks, IMO), there doesn't seem to be a long term vision for additions. Cedar Fair focuses on revitalizing aspects of parks step by step, while Six Flags seems to go year by year.

 

If nobody has read about it, Cedar Fair has plans to "Transform the Best Amusement Park in the World," highlighting the 2016, 2019 and 2020 seasons (released Summer 2015). It's a very interesting read and it sounds like they're not going to hold back the next few years at Cedar Point as CP's GM has been quoted as mentioning a 2020 coaster project.

 

http://ir.cedarfair.com/files/doc_presentations/2015/150811-CP-Analyst-Day-Presentation_PRINT.pdf

Edited November 4, 2015 by Password121

[Fgcassady]

All that made no sense to me and was all irrelevant apart from the CP transformation bit

[Fgcassady]

What I want to know is what you think is the best choice for the park to add in the future

[Password121]

All that made no sense to me and was all irrelevant apart from the CP transformation bit

Well this is pretty rude. It was actually very relevant and I spent a good deal of time trying to find that document, but... thanks for your input.

[Fgcassady]

Well this is pretty rude. It was actually very relevant and I spent a good deal of time trying to find that document, but... thanks for your input.

It's not exactly that, I just scrolled through it, and where did you find it?

[Password121]

^I don't really understand why you scrolling though it has to do with its relevance. Anyways, I had read the document when it was released a few months ago. i originally found the link on Theme Park Review.

[Fgcassady]

Well I want to predict what park will get the next coaster in the SF chain, from my POV, I know that six flags likes to add 2 coasters to individual parks every year.

 

Doing this can predict what other parks like SFGADV will get

Edited November 4, 2015 by Fgcassady

[pashacar]

Password, thanks for this. I hadn't heard of it before today and I'm finding it fascinating. I remember when SF had an Analyst Day under Shapiro.

 

Slide 17 is really interesting and telling as far as how intelligently and holistically CF thinks about the Guest experience.

 

(What an ugly slide deck, though.)

[pashacar]

Sorry for the double post but this is really fascinating. I imagine SF's version of this would be about three slides:

 

1) MORE ORANGE!!!!!

 

2) MORE EXPLOSION NOISES!!!!

 

3) BATMAN?????

[Matt Kaiser]

Here's the rough Six Flags equivalent Investor Relations presentation, from September: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NTk0MDMyfENoaWxkSUQ9MzAzMjM5fFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

WARNING it's a pdf that will probably download.

[Mrpq]

What I want to know is what you think is the best choice for the park to add in the future

Classic woodie.

[pashacar]

Here's the rough Six Flags equivalent Investor Relations presentation, from September: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9NTk0MDMyfENoaWxkSUQ9MzAzMjM5fFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1

WARNING it's a pdf that will probably download.

 

Hah, I was right. Not only a hideous deck, but shows immensely less industry savvy than CF's.

[Daved Thomson]

 

Hah, I was right. Not only a hideous deck, but shows immensely less industry savvy than CF's.

 

 

 

Hah, I was right. Not only a hideous deck, but shows immensely less industry savvy than CF's.

Couldn't agree with you more on this one... But that's what you get when you have a finance guy running a bunch of theme parks. Absolutely no real vision or creativity of any sort, no strategy, and no shortage of hyperbole (although it's definitely toned down since his last attempt at one of these).

[Fgcassady]

Classic woodie.

I think a GCI would be the best fit because we have a massive intense woodie, but we need a calmer woodie.